College carry support?

davidmcbeth · Aug 27, 2012

One can always cite other state court opinions, especially if no opinions are there for the state that the case has the venue.

How much weight will it be given? Who knows .... check the opinion and make sure that citing it won't come back and bite you ...

grylnsmn · Aug 27, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
I have another question: If any business can prohibit weapons, what stops ODU from acting under that same authority?

-Eddy

Because ODU is not private property. They are a public university, owned and operated by the State. That means that they are limited in what they can do by the Constitution of Virginia and the US Constitution.

They have only the power and authority to do those things that the General Assembly has empowered and authorized them to do.

Esanders2008 · Aug 27, 2012

My only issue

My only issue with this legislation is that if passed, it would revert the rule about firearms to the old one, which still prohibits firearms, but without criminal penalty. I could still face academic sanctions for OCing. Please feel free to correct me if I am misunderstanding.

-Eddy

USNA69 · Aug 27, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
Here is the official cite:

http://ww2.odu.edu/ao/bov/manual/pdfs/1013.pdf

I have to say, this is my first day being registered on this forum (I've been reading for about two weeks), and you guys mean business!

I also have a first draft of a letter to my senator, if anyone cares to read and add input:

Senator Wagner:

My name is Eddy Sanders, and I am registered to vote in your district. I am a senior at Old Dominion University, and I have a concern about one of the University’s policies concerning weapons.

It is my right as a citizen to defend myself from attack. However, ODU has diminished this right by enforcing a regulation that says students and faculty may not posses weapons of any sort, anywhere on campus. This includes locked vehicles parked in student garages.

ODU’s campus is a wonderful place to learn and develop young minds, but the surrounding areas are very dangerous. Last year, while I was at a social gathering just off campus, another student was walking alone and was attacked by a small group of thugs. They stole his shoes, his wallet, and his cell phone, then they proceeded to assault him. Had this student been legally armed, he could have defended himself.

I urge you to introduce legislation allowing for both concealed carry and open carry of firearms on college campuses. If legislation such as this passes, students will be able to take a stand and say, “I WILL NOT BE A VICTIM!”

Yours respectfully,

Eddy Sanders

Thanks again,

-Eddy

My observation from doing far more reading than posting on this forum ... is that we avoid using the word "weapons" and prefer the use of guns or firearms. "Weapons" seems to bring with it a connotation of aggressiveness to some people, whereas we, here, are all about defensiveness. The tool of last resort in our defensiveness is the gun.

skidmark · Aug 27, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
Thank you so much for cleaning up my letter. I believe that your logic is very sound, and to be honest I did not know that that statute existed. I will use this letter as you have written it, if that is ok with you.

-Eddy

I'd prefer you cleaned it up a bit, and amplified a few spots. It was a very rough edit.

More needs to be said about the BoV not having the authority to regulate in any way firearm carry by those that are not student/faculty/staff, and that based on McDonald students have a right to have firearms in their dorm room as that is effectively their home/dwelling/domicile during the school term. That is even moreso for those students who have registered as voters using their ODU address. More needs to be said, as well, about using the Virginia Administrative Code as an "end run" around the General Assembly's power to make laws and the misuse of the VAC to regulate behavior that has nothing to do with the operation of the university - buying coal, closing off streets, deciding who gets to use which parking lot are clearly about the operation of the university. Regulating firearms is clearly not.

Finally, the intent is to arouse ire at the usurpation of the power and majesty of the General Assembly.

stay safe.

skidmark · Aug 27, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
My only issue with this legislation is that if passed, it would revert the rule about firearms to the old one, which still prohibits firearms, but without criminal penalty. I could still face academic sanctions for OCing. Please feel free to correct me if I am misunderstanding.

-Eddy

Addressed in suggesting further edits to the base letter.

stay safe.

Esanders2008 · Aug 31, 2012

http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/OP-05-078.pdf

I just discovered this AG opinion on the VCDL website. I understand it, but if someone could please explain to me how important an AG opinion is I would appreciate it.

-Eddy

peter nap · Aug 31, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/OP-05-078.pdf

I just discovered this AG opinion on the VCDL website. I understand it, but if someone could please explain to me how important an AG opinion is I would appreciate it.

-Eddy

An AG opinion is just that Eddy, just an opinion. He advises and represents the state and his opinions are mostly for reference. They carry very little legal weight but the cites and research used in his opinion can be used in legal cases.

That opinion does spell out the law for State Schools though.

Esanders2008 · Aug 31, 2012

It just bothers me that my school, a PUBLIC university, can tell me and my fellow students that I may not carry. Even if the law is reversed, I will still be prohibited by ODU policy.

On that note though, I am planning on attending a meeting of the local chapter of College Republicans. It is my understanding that they were present for the protest that occurred last year regarding this law. Hopefully I will meet some like-minded folks and we can fight for change.

-Eddy

peter nap · Aug 31, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
It just bothers me that my school, a PUBLIC university, can tell me and my fellow students that I may not carry. Even if the law is reversed, I will still be prohibited by ODU policy.

On that note though, I am planning on attending a meeting of the local chapter of College Republicans. It is my understanding that they were present for the protest that occurred last year regarding this law. Hopefully I will meet some like-minded folks and we can fight for change.

-Eddy

If you get a chance, talk to Grapeshot and Philip Van Cleave.

They are two of the sharper knives in the drawer although you do have to keep an eye on Philip. He gets bad advice sometimes.:uhoh:

Esanders2008 · Aug 31, 2012

peter nap said:
If you get a chance, talk to Grapeshot and Philip Van Cleave.

They are two of the sharper knives in the drawer although you do have to keep an eye on Philip. He gets bad advice sometimes.:uhoh:

I am planning on coming out to the NN picnic on the 15th, so I anticipate meeting some new people there. Do you know who has already RSVPd?

peter nap · Aug 31, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
I am planning on coming out to the NN picnic on the 15th, so I anticipate meeting some new people there. Do you know who has already RSVPd?

Nope! That's out of my stomping ground. There are some very good Tidewater people here. They should know.

Justine · Sep 2, 2012

I think open carry on college campuses is a great idea. I go to Regent, and the school policy does not allow any type of firearms (which I expected), but it also does not allow knives on campus (which I was very dismayed to hear). On occasions I go places that don't allow OC, I typically carry a knife (I have not yet applied for my CC). Many classes are held at night, and don't let out until 8pm or later. For folks going to school in bad neighborhoods, it's a matter of safety and protection to be armed with at the very least a knife, which even that is inadequate in most situations. If any type of sit-in/protest is planned in the Hampton Roads area, I would love to support/attend. Keep us informed!

Esanders2008 · Sep 6, 2012

So I went to the ODU College Republicans meeting this evening. There were two reps from the NRA present. I spoke to them about possibly getting the NRA's support in protesting ODU's gun ban. They told me they would definitely look into what they can do to get behind us.
Also, I spoke with the Chairman of ODUCR and asked if another protest could be held. He said it would be difficult, because all activities that CR does has to go through the SGA, and the SGA isn't going to want us to protest on campus. I feel like that shouldn't be a requirement, because we have a first amendment right to assemble AND petition the government. They agree with my logic but can't really change the rules.

Where do we go from here?

peter nap · Sep 6, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
So I went to the ODU College Republicans meeting this evening. There were two reps from the NRA present. I spoke to them about possibly getting the NRA's support in protesting ODU's gun ban. They told me they would definitely look into what they can do to get behind us.
Also, I spoke with the Chairman of ODUCR and asked if another protest could be held. He said it would be difficult, because all activities that CR does has to go through the SGA, and the SGA isn't going to want us to protest on campus. I feel like that shouldn't be a requirement, because we have a first amendment right to assemble AND petition the government. They agree with my logic but can't really change the rules.

Where do we go from here?

The NRA is worse than useless, they're dangerous.
You still haven't found your supporters. Keep looking.

Esanders2008 · Sep 6, 2012

peter nap said:
The NRA is worse than useless, they're dangerous.
You still haven't found your supporters. Keep looking.

Can you please clarify?

67GT390FB · Sep 7, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
Can you please clarify?

basically peter is saying that they just blew smoke up your A$$ to get you to quietly move on. I quote "They told me they would definitely look into what they can do to get behind us." the nra will definitely be behind you all the way until you are about ready to succeed then they'll jump out in front and claim it was all their idea and hard work after you've really been the one doing the work. on a state and local level the nra gets squat done.

Esanders2008 · Sep 7, 2012

67GT390FB said:
basically peter is saying that they just blew smoke up your A$$ to get you to quietly move on. I quote "They told me they would definitely look into what they can do to get behind us." the nra will definitely be behind you all the way until you are about ready to succeed then they'll jump out in front and claim it was all their idea and hard work after you've really been the one doing the work. on a state and local level the nra gets squat done.

I really don't care WHO gets credit, I would just like changes to happen. But if anyone has any more suggestions of how to proceed, I'm open to them.

peter nap · Sep 7, 2012

Esanders2008 said:
I really don't care WHO gets credit, I would just like changes to happen. But if anyone has any more suggestions of how to proceed, I'm open to them.

Credit isn't the issue, it's just a symptom. To simplify it, mostly because I'm real busy today, the NRA is not going to help. They will actually make matters worse if they do get involved.

I can't give you any more suggestions than I have. If you find warm, supportive bodies on campus that are willing to work for this, there is a chance that eventually you can get it changed.

If not and you're in this all alone, might as well spend your time on other matters.

You can contact VCDL for help, but so far they haven't had much success for a number of reasons.
You can contact SCCC....again, they have a non existent track record, but at least it's an organization.

papa bear · Sep 7, 2012

ESANDERS, i would like to set up info booths on or very near campus. maybe in a high traffic area that serves a lot of the collage members. this could be just a table with info of crimes that have happened and/or info on the VCDL and SCCC. let me know if we can set this up

College carry support?

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