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Thread: Thrown out for open carry

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    Regular Member SBR_GUY's Avatar
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    Thrown out for open carry

    So I take my wife and daughter to Rave Motion Pictures Town Square on Wednesday night to see TED the movie, we get in line get our tickets, get our popcorn and drinks and walk to theater 10 to see the movie, with 30min left my wife wants her drink refilled so I go get the refill and while I am waiting in line a security guard walks up and asks if I have a permit I respond with "this is Nevada I dont need a permit to open carry" he says a bunch of other ridiculous things because he has no idea what the law says about open carry and he informs me that management wants me to put it in the car and/or leave so I comply no argument I put it in the car and came back in finished the movie and asked for a Manager. I told the manager that if the theater has an issue with weapons then put a sign in the door requesting no weapons allowed, he says that would scare away customers making them think there was a weapons problem. He said the gun scares people and hurts revenue so I informed him about the law and that if he says it is ok then next time I go to his theater I will conceal the weapon (I dont have a CCW), but it has to be ok with managment because it is private property he says yes. I plan on going again to test it out soon.
    I think we should have an open carry day at that theater.

    I just love the comments people say when I carry at a theater. Like "can you believe the nerve of that guy after all that has happened." LOL I respond with "if more people carried that stuff would happen a lot less."

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    Getting 'conceal' permission from a business owner does NOT make you legal.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Getting 'conceal' permission from a business owner does NOT make you legal.
    Actually… this is quite an interesting scenario… private property and all. Can I not conceal carry in my home and on my private property without a state issued permit? Can I not authorize someone in my home or on my private property to do the same without a state issued permit? If I’m the manager/owner of a cinema may I not conceal carry in that cinema without a state issued permit? Or… may I not authorize a patron to do the same? Just asking the questions here… maybe "stupid" questions.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    My understanding of the law is that permission cannot be given. We have had this discussion on here before and the consensus is that even in your own home it is illegal to carry concealed, as stupid as that sounds. So as far as I know, you can't be given permission by the manager. Be very very careful.

    Welcome to the forum.

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    Regular Member Frantic84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBR_GUY View Post
    I told the manager that if the theater has an issue with weapons then put a sign in the door requesting no weapons allowed, he says that would scare away customers making them think there was a weapons problem. He said the gun scares people and hurts revenue
    that's interesting because the CineMark theater I go to has no problem with signs, although its small and only at the ticket counter at the bottom of a long list. As it is attached to a casino I don't see sheeple thinking its an area with gun "problems"
    Last edited by Frantic84; 08-25-2012 at 01:46 PM.
    remove handgun registration in Clark County,NV

    2nd amendment in modern English: The people have the right to own and carry firearms, and it may not be violated because a well-equipped Militia is necessary for a State to remain secure and free.

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    I agree. There is no provision, in any NRS that allows you to conceal carry in your own home or property. Remember concealed carry is on your person. You can hide firearms all over your home legally. But as soon as you put one in your pocket, without a CCW permit, you are not in compliance with the NRS.

    Some will argue the reasonable expectation of privacy on your own property and "how would they know?". I'm starting that dialogue. ;o)

    Trying to apply that same principle to a private property movie theater that is not your property is asking for trouble. If the management will allow concealed carry, on their property, and you choose accept that offer, you better have a CCW permit. The last thing you want is for some patron to get a glimpse of your holstered firearm and bypass the management and go directly to the police. You can argue all day that you had permission, but they'll still have you for no CCW permit.

    I certainly wouldn't argue the point about a sign in the window.
    1. It has no weight of law and is not a requirement.
    2. If the management/security, especially in this case, where they don't know the laws, gets the idea in their head, from "a gun guy" that posting a sign is the magic answer to keep the gun guys out, then we have taken a step backwards. And we haven't provided accurate information about gun laws/rights.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 08-25-2012 at 01:49 PM.
    Hoka hey

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    First town square made it clear that we are not welcome over a year ago.

    Second STOP telling people to put up a sign. It has no weight in nv and you just fuel the fire.

    Third why did you stay? Just leave , they don't want you but you let them win by not leaving and keeping your money.

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    Re: Thrown out for open carry

    1. Don't encourage them to put up signs. If they won't let you carry on their property, insist upon a refund for your already drank soda, and partial popcorn. Then leave. Never, ever go put it in your car. For one thing, people now know there is a firearm in your vehicle. If your window is smashed, and your firearm stolen when you get back, then what?

    2. Get your ccw. I hate that we have to, but for now, there are times where the situation calls for it. Sometimes leaving isn't an option (graduation being held in a casino ballroom, for example). The ccw doesn't allow you to visibly exercise your rights, but at least it can relieve you of the obligation to be unarmed in such circumstances.

    3. Carry the trifold (see the sticky in the NV forum). When confronted with this situation, realize that while the law may not make it UNLAWFUL for you to carry there, private property (currently) rules. They can ask you to leave. If you don't you are trespassing. The best thing you can do is to try to take it as an opportunity to, in as non-confrontational way as you can, educate them. Explain to them that it is legal in Nevada, and 'here is a pamphlet that has everything you need to know'. We are up against them making assumptions, or acting upon what some silly security guard told them. Your job is to politely explain to them that what you are doing is completely lawful in Nevada, and leave out any discussion about private property unless they bring it up. If they mention it being private property, then you say:

    "Yes, as private property, you can ban people with blue pants on too, but that doesn't necessarily make it appropriate to do so. I understand that you may think that you need to ban firearms to cover yourself from any liability, but consider this: I am not suggesting that you should have a 'firearms welcome' policy. The right policy is to have no policy about it at all. When you have no policy, the law dictates. This is why major corporations such as Walmart, Lowes, Home depot, and others have adopted this policy of "no policy needed, that's what the law is for". You may not know this, but in Aurora, Co, it was unlawful for that nut job to have firearms in that theater. It was also against theater policies. Did it make a bit of difference? Clearly, no. So, the point of that is this: Your no-gun policy won't stop a bad guy, but I might. "

    "But it scares other customers.."

    "You may have a few customers who are put off by it, but i assure you there are more that are reassured by it. If you get a customer who expresses concern to you, the correct response would be to advise them that it is lawful in Nevada, and protected by the Nevada Constitution. Remember, bad guys don't carry like this. Bad guys shove it in their underwear. And they DON'T obey your policy anyway. If you would like to learn more about the open carry movement, there is a website on the back of this pamphlet. Come check it out, you'll learn a lot, and probably make a few new friends."

    If you are lucky, it will end here. If not...

    "But that policy is a corporate one. It's not up to me."

    "Well, that is a tough one, and I certainly wouldn't want to jeopardize your employment in this economy. But consider this: The open carry movement is growing in this country, and it is a fairly well-connected community. When one of us is asked to leave a business because we were lawfully open carrying, the first thing we do is spread the word that we are not welcome there. Likewise, when we have good experiences, we spread the word about that, too. So, the question is, based on your newfound knowledge of Nevada law, are you really going to turn away a paying customer, in this economy?"

    "Yes, my hands are tied"

    Well, I understand, I guess. I am disappointed though. Going to the movies is a classic american family activity, and it is something we look forward to. For what it's worth, I will be writing a letter to your corp office advising them of our contact today, and that you did enforce their policy, but I will also request that they review their policy. Maybe they will consider adopting a more ...."American" policy, like Walmart. Have a good one."

    OC Ambassador. :thumbup:

    You may not win the battle today, but winning the war requires hearts and minds. Start recruiting.

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    Last edited by Merlin; 08-25-2012 at 03:33 PM.
    ---
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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Thrown out for open carry

    What the other guys said.

    Don't recommend signs that carry no weight of the law - it just enforces wrong ideas about what is legal and isn't, as if there isn't enough of that already. IE the security guard oh encountered.

    Permission from an owner doesn't give you the legally protect you from being caught concealing without a permit.

    From what I understand you can't even conceal in your own home without a CCW, there just is little to no chance that they will catch you doing so and if they did you could maybe argue the whole expected privacy thing and maybe escape it...

    The likelihood of that even is probably less than my chance of winning the lottery, and I don't even play. Why would they care if you conceal in your home? They wouldn't. But in a theatre open to the public? Way to risky IMO.

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    Re: Thrown out for open carry

    Worth mentioning, the most important part of my whole long post there is for you to be calm, cool, collected, and confident! Practice having these conversations, so when you do, you are comfortable. Your level of confidence will cause them to question their beliefs, if done right.

    Practice things like:

    That's a common misconception...

    I understand where the confusion comes from...

    Don't feel bad, the Nevada laws changed a few years ago, and not everyone got the memo..

    This is why I carry this pamphlet around, it helps me explain things more clearly...

    ..

    All of these statements say basically the same thing. "You are wrong, but its OK. Today is your lucky day. I'm from OCDO, and I'm here to help."

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    In the State of Nevada only the State (through your local sheriff) can grant you permission to carry a concealed firearm upon your person. If you carry concealed, ANYWHERE, in this state without permission from the government (a permit) you are committing a felony.

    Please read and understand the relevant provisions of the NRS:

    NRS 202.350 Manufacture, importation, possession or use of dangerous weapon or silencer; carrying concealed weapon without permit; penalties; issuance of permit to carry concealed weapon; exceptions.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not:

    (d) Carry concealed upon his or her person any:

    (3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon; or


    2. Except as otherwise provided in NRS 202.275 and 212.185, a person who violates any of the provisions of: …

    (b) Paragraph (b) or subparagraph (1) or (3) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-202.html
    ====================

    Ken

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    Regular Member SBR_GUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    First town square made it clear that we are not welcome over a year ago.

    Second STOP telling people to put up a sign. It has no weight in nv and you just fuel the fire.

    Third why did you stay? Just leave , they don't want you but you let them win by not leaving and keeping your money.
    First I had already bought 3 tickets and we where already in the movie. Please read my first post it explains it.

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    Re: Thrown out for open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by SBR_GUY View Post
    First I had already bought 3 tickets and we where already in the movie. Please read my first post it explains it.
    I know, I did read it. If they are asking you to disarm, they are asking you to leave. Would you pay for half of a movie?

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    Regular Member SBR_GUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    1. Don't encourage them to put up signs. If they won't let you carry on their property, insist upon a refund for your already drank soda, and partial popcorn. Then leave. Never, ever go put it in your car. For one thing, people now know there is a firearm in your vehicle. If your window is smashed, and your firearm stolen when you get back, then what?

    2. Get your ccw. I hate that we have to, but for now, there are times where the situation calls for it. Sometimes leaving isn't an option (graduation being held in a casino ballroom, for example). The ccw doesn't allow you to visibly exercise your rights, but at least it can relieve you of the obligation to be unarmed in such circumstances.

    3. Carry the trifold (see the sticky in the NV forum). When confronted with this situation, realize that while the law may not make it UNLAWFUL for you to carry there, private property (currently) rules. They can ask you to leave. If you don't you are trespassing. The best thing you can do is to try to take it as an opportunity to, in as non-confrontational way as you can, educate them. Explain to them that it is legal in Nevada, and 'here is a pamphlet that has everything you need to know'. We are up against them making assumptions, or acting upon what some silly security guard told them. Your job is to politely explain to them that what you are doing is completely lawful in Nevada, and leave out any discussion about private property unless they bring it up. If they mention it being private property, then you say:

    "Yes, as private property, you can ban people with blue pants on too, but that doesn't necessarily make it appropriate to do so. I understand that you may think that you need to ban firearms to cover yourself from any liability, but consider this: I am not suggesting that you should have a 'firearms welcome' policy. The right policy is to have no policy about it at all. When you have no policy, the law dictates. This is why major corporations such as Walmart, Lowes, Home depot, and others have adopted this policy of "no policy needed, that's what the law is for". You may not know this, but in Aurora, Co, it was unlawful for that nut job to have firearms in that theater. It was also against theater policies. Did it make a bit of difference? Clearly, no. So, the point of that is this: Your no-gun policy won't stop a bad guy, but I might. "

    "But it scares other customers.."

    "You may have a few customers who are put off by it, but i assure you there are more that are reassured by it. If you get a customer who expresses concern to you, the correct response would be to advise them that it is lawful in Nevada, and protected by the Nevada Constitution. Remember, bad guys don't carry like this. Bad guys shove it in their underwear. And they DON'T obey your policy anyway. If you would like to learn more about the open carry movement, there is a website on the back of this pamphlet. Come check it out, you'll learn a lot, and probably make a few new friends."

    If you are lucky, it will end here. If not...

    "But that policy is a corporate one. It's not up to me."

    "Well, that is a tough one, and I certainly wouldn't want to jeopardize your employment in this economy. But consider this: The open carry movement is growing in this country, and it is a fairly well-connected community. When one of us is asked to leave a business because we were lawfully open carrying, the first thing we do is spread the word that we are not welcome there. Likewise, when we have good experiences, we spread the word about that, too. So, the question is, based on your newfound knowledge of Nevada law, are you really going to turn away a paying customer, in this economy?"

    "Yes, my hands are tied"

    Well, I understand, I guess. I am disappointed though. Going to the movies is a classic american family activity, and it is something we look forward to. For what it's worth, I will be writing a letter to your corp office advising them of our contact today, and that you did enforce their policy, but I will also request that they review their policy. Maybe they will consider adopting a more ...."American" policy, like Walmart. Have a good one."

    OC Ambassador. :thumbup:

    You may not win the battle today, but winning the war requires hearts and minds. Start recruiting.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    WOW. very well said. Thank you. I never thought of it like that.

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    Regular Member SBR_GUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    I know, I did read it. If they are asking you to disarm, they are asking you to leave. Would you pay for half of a movie?

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Understood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    What I cannot fathom is why, if you live in a state that "shall issue," why you don't just get a CCW and keep it concealed?

    The natives are much less restless then because out of sight is out of mind.
    Why don't you stay in California and leave us alone. You people screwed your state up leave ours alone. This is opencarry forum, not get a permission slip ccw forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBR_GUY View Post
    First I had already bought 3 tickets and we where already in the movie. Please read my first post it explains it.
    I have been in the middle of movies and asked for my money back.

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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Thrown out for open carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    What I cannot fathom is why, if you live in a state that "shall issue," why you don't just get a CCW and keep it concealed?

    The natives are much less restless then because out of sight is out of mind.
    1. money
    2. Even if you apply they take months to issue.
    3. Who cares how the natives feel.
    4. Why do I want it out of their mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Actually… this is quite an interesting scenario… private property and all. Can I not conceal carry in my home and on my private property without a state issued permit? Can I not authorize someone in my home or on my private property to do the same without a state issued permit? If I’m the manager/owner of a cinema may I not conceal carry in that cinema without a state issued permit? Or… may I not authorize a patron to do the same? Just asking the questions here… maybe "stupid" questions.
    There is NO 'private property' exception coded into statute, thus it is not 'legal.'

    No, you cannot legally authorize someone in your home or on your private property to do the same without a permit recognized by NV.


    Now, if you would choose to allow someone on your private property to conceal without a permit, the 'other question' is 'will a cop know or do a thing about it.....'
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    What I cannot fathom is why, if you live in a state that "shall issue," why you don't just get a CCW and keep it concealed?

    The natives are much less restless then because out of sight is out of mind.
    You answered your own question, but didn't get it.


    1) If you view it that way, why are you in these forums?

    2) The 'less restless because out of sight is out of mind' is why OC is tough in many places. OC puts it 'in mind.' The more it is 'out of sight, out of mind,' the less it becomes tolerated, concealed or open.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    There is NO 'private property' exception coded into statute, thus it is not 'legal.'

    No, you cannot legally authorize someone in your home or on your private property to do the same without a permit recognized by NV.


    Now, if you would choose to allow someone on your private property to conceal without a permit, the 'other question' is 'will a cop know or do a thing about it.....'
    Just for your info this was clearly corrected earlier in this string. The point was, is it legal or not as you repeated the answer, it is not regardless if a LEO is aware of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    You answered your own question, but didn't get it.


    1) If you view it that way, why are you in these forums?

    2) The 'less restless because out of sight is out of mind' is why OC is tough in many places. OC puts it 'in mind.' The more it is 'out of sight, out of mind,' the less it becomes tolerated, concealed or open.
    +1 very well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    What I cannot fathom is why, if you live in a state that "shall issue," why you don't just get a CCW and keep it concealed?

    The natives are much less restless then because out of sight is out of mind.
    No offense broseph, but why are you on an open carry site? Even more so, why are you in the nevada forums? I've read a few of your posts over the past few months and all you seem to do is advocate CCW due to the fact that you live in a state where you can't have a CCW. I know misery loves company, but really? Do something about your situation and stop trying to bring negativity to other people Bro. It's like, against the way mother earth intended. Man.
    Last edited by vegaspassat; 08-26-2012 at 03:15 AM.

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    Another reason I love torrents. 1080p Blue ray in an hour or so then put on a WDTV box hooked up to the flat screen. As far as leaving the theatre you had to think about the rest of your party. Personally I think it is best to make it a pain for them to enforce their rules on you. Like asking for a refund, getting names and numbers etc. I love the ccw guys, my standard answer to the "just conceal and don't have any issues" question is the same I gave to Henderson PD when they asked me. I don't have a ccw for the same reason why you would not pay to get a permit to go to church or to vote. Also welcome to the forums!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    What I cannot fathom is why, if you live in a state that "shall issue," why you don't just get a CCW and keep it concealed?

    The natives are much less restless then because out of sight is out of mind.
    Reverse that question and ask if you live in an area that allows OC, why would you go to the trouble of hiding it? The community is far better educated and considerably better protected via OC.

    What I can't fathom is why this concept is so difficult for some people to grasp; however, if you choose to CC that is fine - just support the right of others to make their own decision.

    Actually I do understand the reluctance of some - think that they'd rather just blend into the shadows and become invisible. Problem is that one doing so is indistinguishable from the garden variety victim and when the SHTF are in a reactive mode rather than proactive. You chose - it is your life.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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