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Thread: Grand Valley State University

  1. #1
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Grand Valley State University

    Looks like GVSU is not OC or CC friendly at all. Not that I am overly surprised. What do you think?

    from http://www.gvsu.edu/cms3/assets/9D2A..._june_2012.pdf
    "Section 215.00: FIREARMS, EXPLOSIVES OR WEAPONS.
Possession or use of firearms, firecrackers, explosives, toxic or dangerous chemicals; other lethal weapons, equipment, chemicals or materi- als; or anything that can be construed as a weapon that operates based on spring, gas or air is not permitted on University property or in University housing at any time. Questions about weapons should be directed to the Director of Public Safety."

    and

    "No part of any appropriation made by this act may be used for the payment of any salaries, wages or fees to any trustees, administrators, faculty member or other employee or for the education of a student, either full or part-time, who shall possess or permit to be possessed, without being a peace officer employed by an institution of higher education, any firearm, not registered with the institution, or other dangerous weapon in any university, college or institution of higher education, including all the buildings and ground under their jurisdiction."
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Thank God I'm not a student there; that would be annoying to have your human rights ground under their boot heel. I though institutions of higher learning were more enlightened than that?

    I can carry, but the people who have legitimate business there cannot....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Grand Valley State University

    I have yet to find a community college or public university in the state that doesn't have an ordinance relating to firearms.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: We change laws through the legislature or courts.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 08-28-2012 at 04:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    This is why they make those annoying little guns.
    Really, what are you suggesting?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  6. #6
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    Not betting against your life.

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    Many colleges/universities offer online courses for undergrads and grads if not being able to carry while on campus is an issue. Just a thought.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Really, what are you suggesting?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Many colleges/universities offer online courses for undergrads and grads if not being able to carry while on campus is an issue. Just a thought.
    Sadly I am down to three classes, two are only offered on campus.

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    This is why they make those annoying little guns.
    And to stainless1911 it sounds like you are suggesting something illegal. I have my CPL and no criminal record, Both of these things I kinda like.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Grand Valley State University

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Really, what are you suggesting?
    I think he appears to be suggesting you carry a tiny gun regardless of the ordinance.

    Ex: breaking the law
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    I think he appears to be suggesting you carry a tiny gun regardless of the ordinance.

    Ex: breaking the law
    I gathered that, I am not going to follow the suggestion however. Most open carriers I have found to be law abiding citizens. As in any group there are those who are different though.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Sadly I am down to three classes, two are only offered on campus.



    And to stainless1911 it sounds like you are suggesting something illegal. I have my CPL and no criminal record, Both of these things I kinda like.
    I don't have a pot to piss in nor a window to throw it out but I too enjoy having both. Good luck with your remaining classes Raggs.

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Re: Grand Valley State University

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    Sadly I am down to three classes, two are only offered on campus.



    And to stainless1911 it sounds like you are suggesting something illegal. I have my CPL and no criminal record, Both of these things I kinda like.
    Perhaps he is suggesting that a person should Open Carry a smaller gun for classrooms and dorms. This would be legal in regards to state law but would, unfortunately violate campus rules. One could argue whether such action would be "illegal".
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Perhaps he is suggesting that a person should Open Carry a smaller gun for classrooms and dorms. This would be legal in regards to state law but would, unfortunately violate campus rules. One could argue whether such action would be "illegal".
    No, i suspect theQ was right and Stainless was suggesting something less than legal, going by past posts.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  14. #14
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    No, i suspect theQ was right and Stainless was suggesting something less than legal, going by past posts.
    You sould like a police officer. Jumping to conclusions and relying a persons past for RAS.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  15. #15
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Grand Valley State University

    I think it was plain to see that he was advocating someone carry a gun weather open or concealed. In the presence of a ordinance by a university or community college, that would clearly be illegal, yes?
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post

    And to stainless1911 it sounds like you are suggesting something illegal. I have my CPL and no criminal record, Both of these things I kinda like.


    Better than helping an active shooter kill unarmed people.

    Laws do not change until they are challenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    You sould like a police officer. Jumping to conclusions and relying a persons past for RAS.
    lmfao
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-27-2012 at 12:55 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    No, i suspect theQ was right and Stainless was suggesting something less than legal, going by past ACTIONS.
    fify

  18. #18
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Better than helping an active shooter kill unarmed people.

    Laws do not change until they are challenged.
    you know that media and others read these forums and you are going around suggesting people do illegal stuff like you did in this thread? this is not he image we want to portray to anyone reading this forum, it makes us all look bad. you know i never "bash" you or anything, but you have got to stop suggesting people do illegal things just because you don't agree with the law.

    as oc'ers we want people to understand that we are law abiding citizens, we have a lot more credibility that way.
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

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    I do understand that the media reads this. Maybe they haven't fully considered that those who ban guns, those who make guns look bad, and those who are in agreement with their prohibition are in fact partially responsible for the deaths caused by the active shooters that their words and ACTIONS have been supporting. As long as we are politically correct, and follow the laws like a bunch of little ducklings, we have already lost.

    It is better to break some college ordinance born of ignorance and emotion than to die, unarmed with your gun in a "safe" .

  20. #20
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I do understand that the media reads this. Maybe they haven't fully considered that those who ban guns, those who make guns look bad, and those who are in agreement with their prohibition are in fact partially responsible for the deaths caused by the active shooters that their words and ACTIONS have been supporting. As long as we are politically correct, and follow the laws like a bunch of little ducklings, we have already lost.

    It is better to break some college ordinance born of ignorance and emotion than to die, unarmed with your gun in a "safe" .
    I am certain that you would be first in line to help me financially take on this battle right?
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    It is better to break some college ordinance born of ignorance and emotion than to die, unarmed with your gun in a "safe" .
    You do realize advocating someone carry concealed in a college dorm or classroom isn't just violating "some college ordinance", it's actually against state law? Just flip over your CPL and read the li....oh, right. You don't have a CPL, sorry...I forgot that for a minute there. Here is the list just so you know.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A DORMITORY OR CLASSROOM OF A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, COLLEGE, OR UNIVERSITY.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    You do realize advocating someone carry concealed in a college dorm or classroom isn't just violating "some college ordinance", it's actually against state law? Just flip over your CPL and read the li....oh, right. You don't have a CPL, sorry...I forgot that for a minute there. Here is the list just so you know.


    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.

    (b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.

    (c) A sports arena or stadium.

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

    (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) A DORMITORY OR CLASSROOM OF A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, COLLEGE, OR UNIVERSITY.
    When people complain "The law seems to just be helping the criminals!". This is what they are talking about.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    I do understand that the media reads this. Maybe they haven't fully considered that those who ban guns, those who make guns look bad, and those who are in agreement with their prohibition are in fact partially responsible for the deaths caused by the active shooters that their words and ACTIONS have been supporting. As long as we are politically correct, and follow the laws like a bunch of little ducklings, we have already lost.

    It is better to break some college ordinance born of ignorance and emotion than to die, unarmed with your gun in a "safe" .
    Anyone, anywhere, with three classes remaining, regardless if he or she is an undergrad or grad, who would risk expulsion by possession/carry on campus, should not not be in possession of firearms to begin with.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    When people complain "The law seems to just be helping the criminals!". This is what they are talking about.
    I'm pretty sure we all agree that section 5o, is retarded at best. Most, if not all, of us know this section only exists as it was more or less a last stitch effort to appease the masses for shall issue. However, until the law is changed, it is what it is.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    When people complain "The law seems to just be helping the criminals!". This is what they are talking about.
    You will not find anyone on this website who agrees with the law. Everyone here agrees PFZ's are killing zones. What you will find are people who are working to change it while not advocating breaking it. We wish you would join us.

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