Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Lord Hill Park - Snohomish County: Signs prohibiting firearms

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    117

    Lord Hill Park - Snohomish County: Signs prohibiting firearms

    I was at Lord Hill Park today and notice two separate signs prohibiting firearms.

    One read: "No person shall possess or discharge any firearms, bow & arrow, air or gas weapons, sling shot, fireworks, or explosives SCC.22.16.090"

    This is also available here (item #5): http://friendsoflordhill.org/park%20rules.htm

    The other sign at the same trailhead read:

    "LORD HILL
    PARK RULES

    NO FIRES
    [checkmark] WEAPONS
    [checkmark] MOTORIZED VEHICLES
    [checkmark] ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES
    [checkmark] OVERNIGHT CAMPING
    "
    etc.

    Although I suppose those checkmarks could be interpreted as those things are allowed. :^)

    I can post photos of the signs if anyone wants to see, but my question is has anyone here attempted to address this yet? I though Snohomish County finally stopped this type of thing after Seattle's failed attempts.
    Hoplophobia is a social disease.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    The sign is not legal it is a county park.

    Enjoy the fishing in all those little ponds. I was told they are stocked.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  3. #3
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    They have the same signs as up on the centenial trail in Lake Stevens,

    Under Chan v. Seattle They may not legally enforce such signage. Kitsap County Parks does the same thing, post signs saying firearms prohibited, yet the County Sheriff's deputies are well aware the signage (http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2009/m...tting-away-it/) and have never harassed anyone to the best of my knowledge in Kitsap parks. I think that the county doesn't want to spend all the money to replace the signs, since open carry went mainstream I've noticed that the signs in Kitsap parks have been slowly changing to not include the firearms langauge so I think all their new signs don't prohibit firearms and are slowly replacing the illegal signage.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 08-26-2012 at 10:44 PM. Reason: adding media cite
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    117
    I'm not really concerned about being harassed by misinformed LEOs. It's more that folks who visit the parks will get bad information, and if they see someone carrying, may be concerned unnecessarily, which could lead to unpleasantness.
    Hoplophobia is a social disease.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by geojohn View Post
    I'm not really concerned about being harassed by misinformed LEOs. It's more that folks who visit the parks will get bad information, and if they see someone carrying, may be concerned unnecessarily, which could lead to unpleasantness.
    If they herrass you, just remind them that they are violating the law by allowing their dogs off-leash. That is far more dangerous than OC (and more common at that park).

    It seems Lords Hill has 'civilian patrols.' http://friendsoflordhill.org/volunteering.htm
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 08-26-2012 at 11:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    "Yeah hi, i'm with the civilian volunteer patrol, the sign says no weapons"

    "yeah I'm a taxpayer legally utilizing this park, pi$$ off"

    Is how I think that should be handled. I can just imagine these civilian volunteers calling the cops because somebody has a gun....

    additional question, anyone here think Lord Hill qualifies as a "legitimate outdoor recreation area" for the purpose of 9.41.060?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  7. #7
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post

    additional question, anyone here think Lord Hill qualifies as a "legitimate outdoor recreation area" for the purpose of 9.41.060?
    I would believe so.

    Intended use of the park is for hiking, biking, and horseback riding.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  8. #8
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    You know what would be fun to do, is for a few people from OCDO to sign up for the volunteer lord hill park patrol, and then make it an OC event, show up for our "patrols" while OCing and see what the other volunteers think about it
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  9. #9
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Snohomish County Council dropped their "Gun Ban in Parks" back in April of 2010. You won't get hassled by any Snohimish County Law Officer.

    As for the "Citizen Patrols"? You mean a "George Zimmerman" type?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  10. #10
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Snohomish County Council dropped their "Gun Ban in Parks" back in April of 2010. You won't get hassled by any Snohimish County Law Officer.

    As for the "Citizen Patrols"? You mean a "George Zimmerman" type?
    Well as linked above there's this group called friends of lord hill park, they've posted an incorrect cite saying guns are banned in lord hill park and theyve organized volunteer patrols that go around reporting law violations to the parks department and LE.

    The one time I was at LH park a friend and I were talking about guns and some guy came up and said "all guns are banned in this park" I'm wondering if he was of the civilian volunteers
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    S. Kitsap, Washington state
    Posts
    3,763
    I mean they report any violation of posted park rules, which presumably would include the illegal firearms ordinance
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

  12. #12
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    I'm curious:

    What would the legal status be of applying a little strip of correction tape to the relevant illegal sections of the sign?

    Normally, defacing a sign would be illegal, but if the part you're covering up is itself illegal...
    Last edited by Difdi; 08-28-2012 at 03:54 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member jsanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    503
    I went to Meadowdale park , its a mile and a half walk thru the woods down to the beach. When I got down to the beach there was a sign by the rangers house that said the same thing. Snohomish county code 22.16. I checked it out and they changed the code to follow state preemtion. So its not a problem to carry in the county parks. Just tell anyone who brings it up that the county has better things to do with there limited money than change outdated signs, and see what they say.

  14. #14
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well as linked above there's this group called friends of lord hill park, they've posted an incorrect cite saying guns are banned in lord hill park and theyve organized volunteer patrols that go around reporting law violations to the parks department and LE.

    The one time I was at LH park a friend and I were talking about guns and some guy came up and said "all guns are banned in this park" I'm wondering if he was of the civilian volunteers
    Let them "report" all they want. If they're civilians then I suggest they not try and stop anyone.

    I would just ignore and go about my business. FWIW, if a "civilian" attempts to stop someone going about a lawful activity through physical contact or force wouldn't that constitute the crime of Battery or Assault? Now who get's reported for an illegal activity in a "Park"?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  15. #15
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Greater Eastside Washington
    Posts
    4,690
    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Let them "report" all they want. If they're civilians then I suggest they not try and stop anyone.

    I would just ignore and go about my business. FWIW, if a "civilian" attempts to stop someone going about a lawful activity through physical contact or force wouldn't that constitute the crime of Battery or Assault? Now who get's reported for an illegal activity in a "Park"?
    I can't find any battery laws in this state. The only ones I can find are assault.

    As for stopping your motion I believe that is "imprisonment" there is more too it but if they tried to do a citizen's arrest or anything like that they would be committing a felony in that case.

    As for assault you have a right to defend yourself. Take that as you will.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 08-28-2012 at 11:03 AM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  16. #16
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    As for assault you have a right to defend yourself. Take that as you will.
    That right is not just limited to your fellow citizens either.

    http://openjurist.org/177/us/529

  17. #17
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    I can't find any battery laws in this state. The only ones I can find are assault.
    In this State they're essentially the same. Some States consider "assault" to be the threat of violence and "battery" to be the actual violence.

    Any unwanted "touching" or unlawful restraint can be considered an assault with varying degrees.

    As for defending yourself, you can only use force proportional to the level of assault. Deadly force is only legal as a defense if you're in fear for your life.

    Someone grabs you, feel free to push him away. He hits you, smack him back or hose his face with spray. Anything more, that puts you in indisputable fear for your life, cancel their Birth Certificate. Just be sure you can convince the authorities your actions were justified.

    As for any "Citizen Patrol Person", I doubt they're going to do anything more than just annoy you, especially if they see you're armed.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    117
    According to info at the link provided above regarding the civilian patrols: "Our mission is simply to report back to the rangers about any problems in the park. We also pass out maps to park users and answer any questions about the trails. We provide information on the importance of safety in a multi-use park. Patrol members must remain courteous to park users at all times. Patrol members must not engage in confrontational situations with park users. If a park user is trying to engage you in a confrontational situation, get away safely and alert the rangers."

    So I think concern about them assaulting anyone should be minimal.
    Hoplophobia is a social disease.

  19. #19
    Regular Member cpgrad08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lakewood, WA
    Posts
    183
    Fort Stellicoom park does that same thing.
    I carry a Para Ordance 1911 .45 ACP.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •