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Thread: OC during the DNC

  1. #1
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    OC during the DNC

    Is anyone here planning any OC events or meetup/luncheon during the DNC?

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    Re: OC during the DNC

    I'm sure someone here will flame me for saying this, but that's probably a bad idea. With recent laws that have passed, I'd hate to get picked up and held as a suspected "domestic terrorist" for being visibly armed anywhere loosely in the vicinity of Obama/Biden & co. Supposedly you can be detained indefinitely without charges or legal representation on the suspicion of being a domestic terrorist. The law is totally FUBAR, but I for one wouldn't want to test the FBI, DHS & SS on the matter.

    This is IMHO not the time/place to attempt to further the normalization of OC.

    Flame on...

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    Last edited by Ruger; 08-27-2012 at 01:11 PM.
    Carry on!

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    You know they would not be "happy"...but it makes me wonder what local ordinances, NC statutes and any federal laws may allow restricting someone from walking down College and getting a hotdog from a vendor.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 08-27-2012 at 01:34 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    I do know CMPD and the mayor's office have declared pretty much the entire I-277 corridor as some sort of special event area (not sure what the exact title is) and put out the do's and don'ts during the DNC. I read a few weeks ago and flipped out. the cops can stop you for any reason they seem fit, even mentioned possession of animals in the area was reason enough to be detained... When I read that the 1st thing I thought of was to go walk my pitbull while OCing everywhere I could down there. I will find the info sheet and post it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    I do know CMPD and the mayor's office have declared pretty much the entire I-277 corridor as some sort of special event area (not sure what the exact title is) and put out the do's and don'ts during the DNC. I read a few weeks ago and flipped out. the cops can stop you for any reason they seem fit, even mentioned possession of animals in the area was reason enough to be detained... When I read that the 1st thing I thought of was to go walk my pitbull while OCing everywhere I could down there. I will find the info sheet and post it.

    Found it! the ordinance is for "Extraordinary Events" and they are considering the DNC this.

    http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/C...20(Events).pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    Found it! the ordinance is for "Extraordinary Events" and they are considering the DNC this.

    http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/C...20(Events).pdf
    I would think that BS law/ordinance would and should be put to the test. The ordinances listed are ridiculous for LACs.

    Any of these ordinances that are listed as a "defense to prosecution" could be easily defended in a court of law for an OCer. Blanket "no carry anywhere near the DNC" is illegal, not the other way around.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aosailor View Post
    Found it! the ordinance is for "Extraordinary Events" and they are considering the DNC this.

    http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/C...20(Events).pdf
    Sounds almost like what they try to do during something like a state of emergency. I thought NC had state preemption that prevented cities from making laws like this?

    But reading it again, I don't actually see anything in regards to firearms?
    Last edited by jesse82nc; 08-27-2012 at 09:54 PM.

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    nice...they even have the 'sock of quarters' listed...shades of death wish series...and if charles bronson shows up?

    does a firearm fall under the mentality of #14??? missile = bullet? firearm = serious injury? death-yes; serious injury...nah!!

    oh dear...no police scanners?

    this seems like it was a well thought out ordinance....NOT!!

    wabbit

    ps: wait...did GRNC coordinate on and approve this new ordinance back in Jan 12?

    pps: thanks for posting the link to the ordinance...
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 08-27-2012 at 11:18 PM.
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    just one more reason not to go to Charlotte.

    doe make me wonder about a mayor that is running for Governor
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Well...I take it they did not include firearms because of the state preemption and recent court decisions. And no "police scanners"...guess I better not take a HAM radios that can receive on those frequencies...better let the FCC know that Charlotte has jurisdiction.

    Sounds like a call to a "hot dog" OC lunch with one of the vendors on College near Trade.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    I followed this closely as they were defining the parameters. The rumor I heard was firearms were originally on it but the state actually contacted the City Attorney and told him they could not override state laws. They were going to ask the Governor to issue a decree (or something of that nature) to temporarily suspend concealed carry for the entire city but were informed to not even bother. This may not be totally accurate as it has been months since I heard all this but I hope you get the gist of it.

    Secondly If you go to the end of the ordinance and read the defense from prosecution section you will see that if you have any legitimate use for the object you are exempt. The problem that they will face is the Fourth Amendment. Not sure what extra powers the Secret Service can invoke in public places or what they can define as restricted access when it comes to public party but they have basically declared the area not accessible to the public and removed any reason for people without legitimate reasons to enter. Closed courts, closed schools, relocated public transportation hubs, rerouted trains, closed city offices plus many other things.

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    Re: OC during the DNC

    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post

    Secondly If you go to the end of the ordinance and read the defense from prosecution section you will see that if you have any legitimate use for the object you are exempt. The problem that they will face is the Fourth Amendment. Not sure what extra powers the Secret Service can invoke in public places or what they can define as restricted access when it comes to public party but they have basically declared the area not accessible to the public and removed any reason for people without legitimate reasons to enter. Closed courts, closed schools, relocated public transportation hubs, rerouted trains, closed city offices plus many other things.
    I doubt that the Secret Service will consider "walking down College to get a hot dog from a vendor" to be a "legitimate reason to enter".

    IANAL & YMMV.

    Good luck to whomever decides to seek out the attention of the Feds by OC'ing downtown.

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    Going into that city during the DNC would break at least one of my three rules about doing stupid things, with stupid people, at stupid times and places. Jus sayin...

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief1297 View Post
    Going into that city during the DNC would break at least one of my three rules about doing stupid things, with stupid people, at stupid times and places. Jus sayin...
    That is very hard to argue with.

    As much as it would just tickle me to do this...just thinking about even finding a parking place makes my head hurt .

    Somehow, I think the best course would be to let the Democrats have their cluster and hope they don't make too much of a mess before they leave. Although, since I no longer pay taxes in Mecklenburg county...do I really care?
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Hey guys I work in the dead center of Charlotte and I can tell you now that the city is going to be locked up tight. We were told no non-event traffic inside of 277 and no parking either. The 4 blocks around the bobcats arena there is no foot traffic without a photo ID and/or an event pass. We are also looking at up to 2 hour wait times to get into those areas. I plan to avoid the whole thing and go to the beach. There is a time and place to fight the good fight, but I think I would stick to expanding knowlage with people the live in the state and local LE. Not when there are a ton of out of staters and fed LE's around. NC is an OC state, but you could get a lot of people from other non-OC states telling Feds there is a man with a gun. Just my .02 cents.

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    Met up with a buddy last night who is a Captain in the CMPD and asked about guns in the Special Event Zone of the 277 corridor. He said its a no go. I asked him how they could violate state pre-emption and he basically pushed it to the Feds taking jurisdiction in the area. I know, what do cops know, but if at senior levels of CMPD they are under these marching orders, it would definitely be a problem. Would any charges hold up in court, guess it depends if they manage to get Eric Holder involved

    Another buddy pressed him in jest about the 2nd Amendment being suspended, the free speech thing must be also. He was pretty clear that they weren't messing with the 1st Amendment, just the 2nd (go figure)

    Luckily I will be out of town for the event, but if I wasn't, would stay clear as I don't like being around a bunch of politicians anyway, talk about needing a shower to wash the filth off yourself!

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    There is a famous quote which says (I'm paraphrasing) 'those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it'. I would attribute and give full credit to the original individual who thought that up if I could remember who it was. The bottom line of my thought is that this has all played out on these pages (in fact on this board) before. Refer back to the last election cycle and the arrest of Mtn Jack Nobles of Pennsylvania for open carry near a location that, then candidate B Obama would be speaking later in the day. Since Pennsylvania also had open carry laws and there was no legitimate grounds for detaining Mr. Nobles, the local Police at the direction of SS individuals arrested Mtn Jack and charged 'disorderly conduct' and took him away. As well as confiscating his property. Many months later after several appearances in court and much $ spent, Mtn Jack was found "not guilty" and his property returned (by all reports grudgingly). My memory banks are somewhat fogged by time but there may have even been a small judgement against the parties initiating this travesty of justice in the end.

    Bottom line, there was no legal excuse for the action and no law supported it but Mtn Jack still suffered the bulk of the repercussions for the illegal actions of those representing the govt. and acting on the part of the public.

    If you plan on challenging the law or just those who make it up as they go along, be sure you consider well all the potential results.

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    Thumbs down cost too much

    i value my cc permit and gun too much to go flaunting them in the face of the gusttpho.
    i read where you cant even carry a water bottle or any thing that can be thrown as a projectile in the SS corridore.
    even the protestors cant have sticks attatched to their protest signs.
    no guns allowed in a protest or by an observer of the protests.
    i thought of going there just to take pictures of the animals but, my camera is big enough to be thrown as a projectile.
    if i took a cop's picture , they could say i was going to throw it at them. every one seems to forget; if you are detained as a domestic terrorist,
    you dont get a trial date. you get detained indefinatly. i dont care much for waterboarding.
    i'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellyfat View Post
    i value my cc permit and gun too much to go flaunting them in the face of the gusttpho.
    i read where you cant even carry a water bottle or any thing that can be thrown as a projectile in the SS corridore.
    even the protestors cant have sticks attatched to their protest signs.
    no guns allowed in a protest or by an observer of the protests.
    i thought of going there just to take pictures of the animals but, my camera is big enough to be thrown as a projectile.
    if i took a cop's picture , they could say i was going to throw it at them. every one seems to forget; if you are detained as a domestic terrorist,
    you dont get a trial date. you get detained indefinatly. i dont care much for waterboarding.
    huh? Tho it is quite interesting to see the morphing of mis-information beginning for the DNC...
    Uh, if it is concealed how are you flaunting it?
    er, you use the term protest do you know something others don't know or are you expecting Abby & Jerry or Tom, et al., to be in attendance?
    BTW, "no guns at a protest..." which NC statute covers protests?
    fotos of animals?
    why would you take a foto of a constable on patrol?
    i might be mistaken, but not sure they would use psych techniques to get invaluable info from you..

    wabbit
    But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most...
    A person who has for untold centuries maintained the imposing position of spiritual head of four-fifths of the human race...
    All religions issue bibles against him, and say the most injurious things about him, but we never hear his side. (twain)

  20. #20
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    huh? Tho it is quite interesting to see the morphing of mis-information beginning for the DNC...
    Uh, if it is concealed how are you flaunting it?
    er, you use the term protest do you know something others don't know or are you expecting Abby & Jerry or Tom, et al., to be in attendance?
    BTW, "no guns at a protest..." which NC statute covers protests?
    fotos of animals?
    why would you take a foto of a constable on patrol?
    i might be mistaken, but not sure they would use psych techniques to get invaluable info from you..

    wabbit
    Well...here is a little read...it is making the national media...http://news.yahoo.com/dnc-security-r...-politics.html


    "Somewhat counter-intuitively, handguns and rifles are not included in the long list of potential weapons banned by the city. North Carolina state law specifically grants the right to carry firearms in public places, either in plain view or, if the person has a special permit, concealed."
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    BTW, "no guns at a protest..." which NC statute covers protests?

    wabbit
    I believe that "demonstration" equates to "protest", and would then be covered by 14-277.2 if on government controlled 'public place'. So, stay off the street and out of city/county buildings. You may actually not be participating or spectating, but it will cost you to prove it.
    Last edited by bc.cruiser; 09-02-2012 at 05:31 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    I believe that "demonstration" equates to "protest", and would then be covered by 14-277.2 if on government controlled 'public place'. So, stay off the street and out of city/county buildings. You may actually not be participating or spectating, but it will cost you to prove it.
    I think the "protest" covers "medical clinics" ie abortion clinics.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    I think the "protest" covers "medical clinics" ie abortion clinics.
    It does. It also is not restricted to abortion clinics.

    From 14-277.2(a): ..or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon..

    The bolded "or" separates health facility from the rest of the phrase; note that although we are familiar with the protests at abortion clinics, the law does not single them out. Protests can be at any private clinic. Public clinics come under the non-specific label of public place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REDFIVE48 View Post
    Met up with a buddy last night who is a Captain in the CMPD and asked about guns in the Special Event Zone of the 277 corridor. He said its a no go. I asked him how they could violate state pre-emption and he basically pushed it to the Feds taking jurisdiction in the area. I know, what do cops know, but if at senior levels of CMPD they are under these marching orders, it would definitely be a problem.
    These guys from Houston Free Thinkers were told by DHS outside the RNC "compound", that the entire state of Florida was federal property. Along with a bunch of other BS.

    http://houstonfreethinkers.com/all-n...dhs-at-the-rnc

  25. #25
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    It does. It also is not restricted to abortion clinics.

    From 14-277.2(a): ..or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon..

    The bolded "or" separates health facility from the rest of the phrase; note that although we are familiar with the protests at abortion clinics, the law does not single them out. Protests can be at any private clinic. Public clinics come under the non-specific label of public place.
    ok
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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