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Thread: PoliceOne Forum- Still confused about OC!

  1. #1
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb PoliceOne Forum- Still confused about OC!

    http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Saf...rry-advocates/
    Spouting the OCer using video-audio(protection from illegal ,untrained LEO actions) to entrap illegal actions?There was no way for me to comment(police only).They need to know it's their responsibility(their job) to know the laws and uphold them! OCers carry audio-video for their own protection from the uneducated,untrained officers,who bear sole responsibility of knowing the job OCers(tax payers,citizens) hired them to do! Grow Up! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    IMO
    I think the guy in the second video is being an A$$
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  3. #3
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    IMO
    I think the guy in the second video is being an A$$
    I agree, the sergeant in the second video is being an ass.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  4. #4
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Here's some goodness from the original article:
    I have to look at it from the eyes of ‘what does the law say?’ Too many times I’ve seen officers with a poor understanding of existing law make poor choices on how they choose to handle a situation from an enforcement standpoint.

    “Obviously, this type of situation is not going to go away. These people are willing to go to court, fight it, sue departments, and do what is necessary to ensure that their right to bear arms is not infringed.”
    Then he ruins it by still advocating an unlawful seizure.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  5. #5
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    That site is a joke.

  6. #6
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    You are wrong, stainless. Policeone.com is not a joke. Officer.com is not a joke. The other LEO sites are not a joke. That is where LEOs hang out. Read the forums (you will not be allowed to post). That is where the "us v. them" mentality is cultivated. They don't seem to understand that the people they are alienating are the people they want on their side. Just my opinion.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  7. #7
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    I've been on police one and officer.com, that us v. them, is what I meant.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    I agree, the sergeant in the second video is being an ass.
    I wasn't clear sorry, pretty much everyone in that video was being an ass.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  9. #9
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    The citizen was righteously indignant. But would I have behaved that way? No.

    He was a drama queen.

    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  10. #10
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    The citizen was righteously indignant. But would I have behaved that way? No.

    [COLOR="#800080"]He was a drama queen.
    Oh sure, it is because he's gay!
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  11. #11
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    I used to post there quite frequently before they made it LE only. The truth of the matter is, anything we say over there bounces off the thick skulls that have an invisible ego based force field. Nothing I have said has been met with any kind of reasonable response. Just snaps and quips from people who believe they are above the law. There are a few that have some common sense, but its rare to see them post.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


    The statements made in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of OCDO or its members.

  12. #12
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    And people wonder why I am the way I am.

    You're going to fix this by working with the system, and by voting? Ha! How is that supposed to work?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I find it odd that...

    -The police expect citizens to obey the law. All of the laws even if the citizen has no knowledge a particular law exists the police still expect the citizen to obey the law. The citizen's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the citizen doesn't obey the law the police will arrest him/her and let the system convince them to obey the law.

    And the police think that is a perfectly fine thing. So do I. And..........

    -A citizen lawfully open carrying and lawfully recording expects the police to obey the law. All of the laws even if the officer has no knowledge a particular law exists the open carrier, as a law abiding citizen, still expects the officer to obey the law. The officer's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the officer doesn't obey the law the open carrier uses recordings to show that the officer disobeyed the law and uses the recordings to let the system convince the officer to....... obey the law.

    And I think that is a perfectly fine thing to do.

    As far as open carriers "baiting" the police?

    -It is legal for a cop to sit and wait for a speeder to go by. The cop is not breaking any laws sitting there and the cop didn't entice, encourage, or "bait" anyone to break the speed limit law. He was just prepared to catch a citizen breaking the law....

    And...

    Where legal.. the open carrier is not breaking any laws by open carrying and recording and the open carrier did not entice, encourage, or "bait" any cops to break the law. And an open carrier with a recorder is just prepared to catch a cop breaking the law.

    Perhaps it is the "catch a cop breaking the law" that some officers don't like?

    Oh.... and if a particularly active open carry activist actually did engage in "baiting"? How come a cop run "sting" operation to catch criminal citizens is Ok... but a citizen doing a "sting" operation to catch a criminal cop is not Ok?

    But there is one commonality that strikes me....

    Criminal citizens don't like to be caught by cops... and apparently.. criminal cops don't like to be caught by citizens either.

    Oh... and if a citizen with nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a cop... then a cop who has nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a recording.

    Funny thing is... I'm very much pro cop but I am anti criminal... regardless of if the criminal is a citizen or a cop.

    (I know cops are "citizens"... I used the word only to provide a comparison.)
    Last edited by Bikenut; 08-28-2012 at 10:05 AM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  14. #14
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    When they show up in numbers — like some bizarre flash mob —essentially they’re moving from Second Amendment advocacy and into First Amendment right to assembly and free speech territory. Taken together, contact with police is inevitable.*
    The logic is interesting. If a citizen chooses to exercise more than one constitutionally protected right at a time your pretty much guaranteed to have an encounter with law enforcement.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

  15. #15
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I find it odd that...

    -The police expect citizens to obey the law. All of the laws even if the citizen has no knowledge a particular law exists the police still expect the citizen to obey the law. The citizen's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the citizen doesn't obey the law the police will arrest him/her and let the system convince them to obey the law.

    And the police think that is a perfectly fine thing. So do I. And..........

    -A citizen lawfully open carrying and lawfully recording expects the police to obey the law. All of the laws even if the officer has no knowledge a particular law exists the open carrier, as a law abiding citizen, still expects the officer to obey the law. The officer's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the officer doesn't obey the law the open carrier uses recordings to show that the officer disobeyed the law and uses the recordings to let the system convince the officer to....... obey the law.

    And I think that is a perfectly fine thing to do.

    As far as open carriers "baiting" the police?

    -It is legal for a cop to sit and wait for a speeder to go by. The cop is not breaking any laws sitting there and the cop didn't entice, encourage, or "bait" anyone to break the speed limit law. He was just prepared to catch a citizen breaking the law....

    And...

    Where legal.. the open carrier is not breaking any laws by open carrying and recording and the open carrier did not entice, encourage, or "bait" any cops to break the law. And an open carrier with a recorder is just prepared to catch a cop breaking the law.

    Perhaps it is the "catch a cop breaking the law" that some officers don't like?

    Oh.... and if a particularly active open carry activist actually did engage in "baiting"? How come a cop run "sting" operation to catch criminal citizens is Ok... but a citizen doing a "sting" operation to catch a criminal cop is not Ok?

    But there is one commonality that strikes me....

    Criminal citizens don't like to be caught by cops... and apparently.. criminal cops don't like to be caught by citizens either.

    Oh... and if a citizen with nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a cop... then a cop who has nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a recording.

    Funny thing is... I'm very much pro cop but I am anti criminal... regardless of if the criminal is a citizen or a cop.

    (I know cops are "citizens"... I used the word only to provide a comparison.)
    I agree with you on a gut level...but keep in mind...cops are NOT "law enforcement officers"...they are "order maintainance officers". If their jobs were to enforce the law, they would all fail miserably. Almost across the board, you will NOT find a law that gives the police officer the option to cite or not cite/arrest.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    The logic is interesting. If a citizen chooses to exercise more than one constitutionally protected right at a time your pretty much guaranteed to have an encounter with law enforcement.
    That logic is disconcerting as well.

    "...He should have expected a confrontation, since he was both not quartering soldiers during peacetime and retaining his rights not specifically enumerated in the constitution. His Third Amendment advocacy is spilling over into Ninth Amendment territory..."

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