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PoliceOne Forum- Still confused about OC!

H

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Sa...ns-Police-contacts-with-open-carry-advocates/
Spouting the OCer using video-audio(protection from illegal ,untrained LEO actions) to entrap illegal actions?There was no way for me to comment(police only).They need to know it's their responsibility(their job) to know the laws and uphold them! OCers carry audio-video for their own protection from the uneducated,untrained officers,who bear sole responsibility of knowing the job OCers(tax payers,citizens) hired them to do! Grow Up! CARRY ON!
 
griffin

griffin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
Here's some goodness from the original article:
I have to look at it from the eyes of ‘what does the law say?’ Too many times I’ve seen officers with a poor understanding of existing law make poor choices on how they choose to handle a situation from an enforcement standpoint.

“Obviously, this type of situation is not going to go away. These people are willing to go to court, fight it, sue departments, and do what is necessary to ensure that their right to bear arms is not infringed.”
Click to expand...
Then he ruins it by still advocating an unlawful seizure. :(
 
griffin

griffin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
You are wrong, stainless. Policeone.com is not a joke. Officer.com is not a joke. The other LEO sites are not a joke. That is where LEOs hang out. Read the forums (you will not be allowed to post). That is where the "us v. them" mentality is cultivated. They don't seem to understand that the people they are alienating are the people they want on their side. Just my opinion.
 
griffin

griffin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
871
Location
Okemos, MI
The citizen was righteously indignant. But would I have behaved that way? No.

He was a drama queen.

leaving.gif
 
Tucker6900

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
I used to post there quite frequently before they made it LE only. The truth of the matter is, anything we say over there bounces off the thick skulls that have an invisible ego based force field. Nothing I have said has been met with any kind of reasonable response. Just snaps and quips from people who believe they are above the law. There are a few that have some common sense, but its rare to see them post.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
I find it odd that...

-The police expect citizens to obey the law. All of the laws even if the citizen has no knowledge a particular law exists the police still expect the citizen to obey the law. The citizen's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the citizen doesn't obey the law the police will arrest him/her and let the system convince them to obey the law.

And the police think that is a perfectly fine thing. So do I. And..........

-A citizen lawfully open carrying and lawfully recording expects the police to obey the law. All of the laws even if the officer has no knowledge a particular law exists the open carrier, as a law abiding citizen, still expects the officer to obey the law. The officer's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the officer doesn't obey the law the open carrier uses recordings to show that the officer disobeyed the law and uses the recordings to let the system convince the officer to....... obey the law.

And I think that is a perfectly fine thing to do.

As far as open carriers "baiting" the police?

-It is legal for a cop to sit and wait for a speeder to go by. The cop is not breaking any laws sitting there and the cop didn't entice, encourage, or "bait" anyone to break the speed limit law. He was just prepared to catch a citizen breaking the law....

And...

Where legal.. the open carrier is not breaking any laws by open carrying and recording and the open carrier did not entice, encourage, or "bait" any cops to break the law. And an open carrier with a recorder is just prepared to catch a cop breaking the law.

Perhaps it is the "catch a cop breaking the law" that some officers don't like?

Oh.... and if a particularly active open carry activist actually did engage in "baiting"? How come a cop run "sting" operation to catch criminal citizens is Ok... but a citizen doing a "sting" operation to catch a criminal cop is not Ok?

But there is one commonality that strikes me....

Criminal citizens don't like to be caught by cops... and apparently.. criminal cops don't like to be caught by citizens either.

Oh... and if a citizen with nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a cop... then a cop who has nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a recording.

Funny thing is... I'm very much pro cop but I am anti criminal... regardless of if the criminal is a citizen or a cop.

(I know cops are "citizens"... I used the word only to provide a comparison.)
 
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L

lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
When they show up in numbers — like some bizarre flash mob —essentially they’re moving from Second Amendment advocacy and into First Amendment right to assembly and free speech territory. Taken together, contact with police is inevitable.*
Click to expand...

The logic is interesting. If a citizen chooses to exercise more than one constitutionally protected right at a time your pretty much guaranteed to have an encounter with law enforcement.
 
carolina guy

carolina guy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2012
Messages
1,737
Location
Concord, NC
Bikenut said:
I find it odd that...

-The police expect citizens to obey the law. All of the laws even if the citizen has no knowledge a particular law exists the police still expect the citizen to obey the law. The citizen's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the citizen doesn't obey the law the police will arrest him/her and let the system convince them to obey the law.

And the police think that is a perfectly fine thing. So do I. And..........

-A citizen lawfully open carrying and lawfully recording expects the police to obey the law. All of the laws even if the officer has no knowledge a particular law exists the open carrier, as a law abiding citizen, still expects the officer to obey the law. The officer's personal opinion of the law is immaterial. If the officer doesn't obey the law the open carrier uses recordings to show that the officer disobeyed the law and uses the recordings to let the system convince the officer to....... obey the law.

And I think that is a perfectly fine thing to do.

As far as open carriers "baiting" the police?

-It is legal for a cop to sit and wait for a speeder to go by. The cop is not breaking any laws sitting there and the cop didn't entice, encourage, or "bait" anyone to break the speed limit law. He was just prepared to catch a citizen breaking the law....

And...

Where legal.. the open carrier is not breaking any laws by open carrying and recording and the open carrier did not entice, encourage, or "bait" any cops to break the law. And an open carrier with a recorder is just prepared to catch a cop breaking the law.

Perhaps it is the "catch a cop breaking the law" that some officers don't like?

Oh.... and if a particularly active open carry activist actually did engage in "baiting"? How come a cop run "sting" operation to catch criminal citizens is Ok... but a citizen doing a "sting" operation to catch a criminal cop is not Ok?

But there is one commonality that strikes me....

Criminal citizens don't like to be caught by cops... and apparently.. criminal cops don't like to be caught by citizens either.

Oh... and if a citizen with nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a cop... then a cop who has nothing to hide has nothing to fear from a recording.

Funny thing is... I'm very much pro cop but I am anti criminal... regardless of if the criminal is a citizen or a cop.

(I know cops are "citizens"... I used the word only to provide a comparison.)
Click to expand...

I agree with you on a gut level...but keep in mind...cops are NOT "law enforcement officers"...they are "order maintainance officers". If their jobs were to enforce the law, they would all fail miserably. Almost across the board, you will NOT find a law that gives the police officer the option to cite or not cite/arrest.
 
Evil Creamsicle

Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
lapeer20m said:
The logic is interesting. If a citizen chooses to exercise more than one constitutionally protected right at a time your pretty much guaranteed to have an encounter with law enforcement.
Click to expand...

That logic is disconcerting as well.

"...He should have expected a confrontation, since he was both not quartering soldiers during peacetime and retaining his rights not specifically enumerated in the constitution. His Third Amendment advocacy is spilling over into Ninth Amendment territory..."
 
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