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Thread: Verbal judo

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    Verbal judo

    This is a spin-off of another thread...

    On a police officer forum part of the advice given to officers when dealing with individuals who Oc is "verbal judo"

    This was a new phrase to me, so I did some research. Now I want to take a course. Not only could this be helpful, maybe even save my life on the job, but would be useful to recognize this tactic being used against me during an Oc encounter.


    Generate voluntary compliance, enhance
    your professionalism, prevent verbal
    attacks from escalating,
    and -- maybe one day -- save your life

    http://www.verbaljudo.com/

    Anybody have personal experience with. Erbal judo?
    Last edited by lapeer20m; 08-28-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    This is a spin-off of another thread...

    On a police officer forum part of the advice given to officers when dealing with individuals who Oc is "verbal judo"

    This was a new phrase to me, so I did some research. Now I want to take a course. Not only could this be helpful, maybe even save my life on the job, but would be useful to recognize this tactic being used against me during an Oc encounter.





    http://www.verbaljudo.com/

    Anybody have personal experience with. Erbal judo?

    What good is it going to do when the person the officer is using his judo on refuses to speak.
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Did someone say Judo?

    Gene LeBell does not approve of judo being used this way
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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Re: Verbal judo

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    What good is it going to do when the person the officer is using his judo on refuses to speak.
    Not only refuses to speak, but remains calm and even smiles in the face of ignorance.

    Some people get tricked by the nice cop ploy. It is just that, if you are contacted, spoken to, issued commands, asked questions. You are considered guilty of some offense, real or imagined by them. Talking only gives them the rope they wish to hang you with.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    This was a new phrase to me, so I did some research.
    You've seen this thread, right? You can view a 90 minute video on the subject.

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...ic,2065.0.html
    Last edited by griffin; 08-28-2012 at 04:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    You've seen this thread, right? You can view a 90 minute video on the subject.

    http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/...ic,2065.0.html

    I thought u were posting the link to wash rinse repeat. Lol
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Verbal judo.. such a wonderful phrase that lends some kind of validity and sensationalism to nothing other than............. banter.

    C'mon folks .. it isn't some kind of "judo" or some kind of "tactical expertise" to be smart enough to not let some cop blow smoke up your ass...

    .... Am I being detained..

    ... Am I free to go...

    .... I do not consent to any searches or seizures...

    ... And let the verbal judo expert beat the hell out of himself as he talks to............ himself.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Verbal judo.. such a wonderful phrase that lends some kind of validity and sensationalism to nothing other than............. banter.

    C'mon folks .. it isn't some kind of "judo" or some kind of "tactical expertise" to be smart enough to not let some cop blow smoke up your ass...

    .... Am I being detained..

    ... Am I free to go...

    .... I do not consent to any searches or seizures...

    ... And let the verbal judo expert beat the hell out of himself as he talks to............ himself.
    I believe there is some value in studying the tactics that are likely to be utilized against US.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Re: Verbal judo

    @lapeer20m - knowing ones enemy is always smart. We need to make sure our people remember that - wash, rinse, repeat is a tried and true way to avoid being duped into having your words (bent/twisted taken out of context) and used against them. The vast majority of police are honest and mean well, however it only takes one that is not honest and does not mean well to make life a living hell for a law abiding citizen.

    So people - should you run into a officer: be polite, but say no more than you absolutely have to. You are protected not only by the 2A, but the 4th & 5th also, so use them to your advantage.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 08-29-2012 at 11:25 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    . You are protected not only by the 2A, but the 4th & 5th also,
    not really.

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    The vast majority of police are honest and mean well
    Did you forget the purple?
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
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    Re: Verbal judo

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    not really.
    A two word response? I know what you are talking about, but many do not. Care to give detail so otbers can form opinions on what you are talking about? The 2A does not protect us? The right to REMAIN SILENT does not protect us? The right to be free from unreasonable search & seizure, does not protect us?

    Do tell Sir?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Re: Verbal judo

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Did you forget the purple?
    I was trying to take the high road.

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    A two word response? I know what you are talking about, but many do not. Care to give detail so otbers can form opinions on what you are talking about? The 2A does not protect us? The right to REMAIN SILENT does not protect us? The right to be free from unreasonable search & seizure, does not protect us?

    Do tell Sir?

    Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!
    Well sometimes, they do what they are going to do, rights be damned. They have told me as much, and on more than one occasion.

    We were discussing some things on some police forums, I have read their posts as well there too, "they" don't like the rest of us, they dont care about and sometimes really really hate our rights. They act as though it is an offense to them sometimes. They know how the system works, that we will need a lawyer we cant afford, and that they can get away with whatever they want. Theres insurance to pay the fines if justice is done, and the thin blue line to protect them from anything else.

    In my most recent incident, the search and detainment, the lawyers I spoke with all wanted money, more than the case was worth, but the criminal charges, even felonies, were barely acknowledged, just a couple words and gone. They understand how it works too, they understood with a hint of sadness.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 08-30-2012 at 12:04 AM.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    not really.
    Well they only work to your advantage if you use them. If used properly, the 4th and 5th Amendments are just as valuable as the 2nd is. Just don't mix them up with the 1st Amendment (freedom of speech) and you will be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Well they only work to your advantage if you use them. If used properly, the 4th and 5th Amendments are just as valuable as the 2nd is. Just don't mix them up with the 1st Amendment (freedom of speech) and you will be fine.
    They work to your advantage, sometimes, and only if you can afford them. There are exceptions, but the constitution is a commodity.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Verbal judo

    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    They work to your advantage, sometimes, and only if you can afford them. There are exceptions, but the constitution is a commodity.
    Sorry, you can't expect services from others for free, despite what the .gov teaches some ppl the first of every month. Some ppl have to be productive, otherwise we all starve equally under socialism.

    Btw: Pete "The Huckster" Hoekstra voted for the PATRIOT act every time.
    Last edited by TheQ; 08-30-2012 at 12:14 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

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    They are at opposite extremes as me, both are just as destructive.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    They are at opposite extremes as me, both are just as destructive.
    To whom are you referring?
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    Lawyers charging at the extremes of our economy. 350$/hr and we wonder where our rights went. Not enough people have been able to bring the fight to the mat.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Lawyers charging at the extremes of our economy. 350$/hr and we wonder where our rights went. Not enough people have been able to bring the fight to the mat.
    Last lawyer I hired (divorce lawyer) was no where near that expensive, but then I didn't ask Johnie Cochran to file for me either. I am sure there had to be lower priced lawyers.
    Last edited by Ezerharden; 08-30-2012 at 01:03 AM.
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    Thats pretty much the going rate for the firearms lawyers that we are in contact with around here.

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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Thats pretty much the going rate for the firearms lawyers that we are in contact with around here.
    Sounds like you had more of a need for a civil rights lawyer.
    Want to keep informed of Open Carry events in your area? Go to www.miopencarry.org/update

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    I've done a line-by-line breakdown of an officer's verbal judo in an OC video, but I can't find it at the moment. I do specifically remember that the officer tried using such tactics as guilt ("You aren't going to be that kind of guy, are you?) and just plain BSing ("I'm just trying to talk to you here, man!") in an attempt to coerce the law abiding citizen to give up his civil rights. These kind of lines are very common in police encounters. Good police generally are professional talkers, and get very good at disarming situations with words first.

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    In an encounter between myself and Sergeant Chapel of the Gwinnett County Police Department (Georgia) both attempts at 'verbal judo' and 'remaining silent' can be found being used.

    Sgt Chapel, "You know, your permit is a privilege as well as a right. It can be taken away from you as well."
    "By the Probate Court Judge; would you like the number?"
    Sgt Chapel, "...we have the number... and when you’re given a permit you’re expected to cooperate a little bit with law enforcement."
    "Actually, I’m required to cooperate; as required by law."
    Sgt Chapel, "Why aren’t you?"
    "What am I not doing that’s required?"
    Sgt Chapel, (silence)
    "What am I not doing that’s required, Sergeant Chapel?"
    Sgt Chapel, (silence)
    Sgt Chapel, "Did you drive here, sir, or did you walk here?"
    "What am I not doing that’s required, Sergeant Chapel?"
    Sgt. Chapel, "Did you drive here, or did you walk here?"
    "What am I not doing that’s required, Sergeant Chapel?"
    Sgt Chapel, "There you go, right there."

    - At that point Sergeant Chapel decided he wanted to be almost anywhere else and doing almost anything else rather than be conducting an interrogation with me. Well, that or he got distracted by a pretty butterfly .... whichever, he wandered off


    ... sometimes, the one Not holding up his end of the "conversation" isn't who you expect.
    Honestly though, Sergeant Chapel and I have a lot in common, probably about 60-80lbs worth of common.

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