Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 62

Thread: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Anybody every thought about fighting this? Considering that we all have a 2A right to possess and carry firearms, IMHO this prohibition isn't Constitutional. If the law banned carry in state buildings only it wouldn't be an issue. However, the Capitol Area as defined, includes residences(from what I can tell on google maps) around the state buildings. This would go against the 2A. Consider the people that live in the "Capitol Area" are they not permitted to carry to and from their residence due to it being in the restricted "Capitol Area"? Just curious, as I think this is a rights violation similar to Chicago/D.C. Am I wrong in my thinking?

  2. #2
    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Portland, ME
    Posts
    616
    I have not thought about [fighting] it. I'm not a huge fan of Augusta, and haven't been there (except for passing through) since I visited the Baldacci's about 4 or 5 years ago (family friends), so it really doesn't affect me.

    Can you elaborate on the residences that are banned from carrying?

    How would you plan on fighting this?
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
    Live and die on this day.
    Live and die on this day.



    "I knew one thing: as soon as anyone said you didn't need a gun, you'd better take one along that worked."
    Raymond Chandler

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    Can you elaborate on the residences that are banned from carrying?

    How would you plan on fighting this?
    Anyone that has a residence(lives) in these areas aka the "Capitol Area"...
    2. Capitol Area defined. The Capitol Area is defined as the following described premises:
    A. The west side of Kennebec River as follows: Beginning at the intersection of the easterly line of Florence Street with the northerly line of Capitol Street; thence easterly along said northerly line of Capitol Street to a point of 150 feet westerly of the intersection of the westerly line of Federal Street projected northerly across said Capitol Street and said northerly line of Capitol Street; thence southerly and parallel to said westerly line of Federal Street about 800 feet to Kennedy Brook; thence following the thread of the stream generally easterly to its intersection with the northerly property line of the land of the State of Maine, being part of the Motor Vehicles premises; thence westerly about 60 feet along said property line; thence southerly along said property line about 155 feet; thence easterly along said property line about 140 feet; thence southerly along said property line about 120 feet to the northerly line of Manley Street; thence diagonally and southwesterly across Manley Street to its intersection with the northwesterly corner of other land of the State of Maine; thence southerly along said property line extended to the northerly line of Glenwood Street; thence along said Glenwood Street easterly to the westerly line of State Street; thence northerly along said State Street about 150 feet to a point opposite the northerly line of Britt Street; thence across State Street and along the northerly line of said Britt Street easterly to its intersection with property of Augusta Sanitary District; thence northerly and easterly as said property line may run to its intersection with the Kennebec River; thence along said river northerly as the same may run to its intersection with the southerly line of Highway Route 201; thence southwesterly along said highway line, as the same may run, to the easterly line of State Street at its intersection with Memorial Traffic Circle; thence across State Street in a northwesterly direction to the southeasterly line of Grove Street at its intersection with Memorial Traffic Circle; thence southwesterly along said Grove Street to the northerly line of Higgins Street; thence across Grove Street; thence southerly along Grove Street to its intersection with the northerly line of Wade Street; thence westerly about 400 feet in a straight line along Wade Street and its northerly line extended to the westerly line of Sewall Street; thence southerly along Sewall Street to the northerly line of Wade Street where it intersects the westerly line of Sewall Street; thence westerly along the northerly line of Wade Street and thence continuing in a straight line westerly and parallel to Capitol Street to the easterly line of Florence Street; thence southerly along Florence Street to the point of beginning; and [1991, c. 824, Pt. A, 1 (NEW).]
    B. The east side of the Kennebec River as follows: Beginning at a point at the intersection of the northerly line of the Old Arsenal Grounds with the westerly line of Hospital Street; thence westerly along said northerly line of the Old Arsenal Grounds 1,680 feet to a point at the Kennebec River; thence following the river generally southwesterly to a point where a projected northeasterly line of Kelton Road would meet the river, being a point 2,185 feet, more or less, from the intersection of said road and the northwesterly line of Hospital Street; thence southeasterly to and along the projected northwesterly line of Kelton Road from the river to a point on the southwest corner of the lands of the Augusta Sanitary District 564.19 feet, more or less, from the intersection of Kelton Road and Hospital Street; thence northeasterly at an interior angle of 89` 20' a distance of 84.88 feet to a point; thence southeasterly at an interior angle of 90` a distance of 76.09 feet to a point; thence northeasterly at an interior angle of 270` a distance of 98.74 feet to a point; thence at an interior angle of 90` 20' a distance of 212.8 feet, more or less, on a line bearing S 61` 20' E to a point; thence southwesterly at an interior angle of 90` a distance of 36.06 feet, more or less, to a point on the northerly line of the Augusta Sanitary District property; thence in an easterly direction at an angle 90` and a distance of 128.42 feet, more or less, to a point; thence in a northerly direction at an angle of 90` a distance of 73 feet to a point; thence in an easterly direction at an angle of 90` and a distance of 143 feet, more or less, to a point on the westerly line of Hospital Street; thence northeasterly along the westerly line of Hospital Street 3,125 feet to a point on the southeast corner of the lands of the City of Augusta; thence westerly at right angle 185 feet to a point; thence southerly at right angle 25 feet to a point; thence westerly at right angle 115 feet to a point; thence northerly at right angle 140 feet to a point; thence easterly at right angle 115 feet to a point; thence northerly at right angle 20 feet to a stone bound; thence easterly at right angle 185 feet to the westerly line of Hospital Street; thence northerly along the westerly line of Hospital Street 380 feet, more or less, to the point of beginning.

    Not really sure how to fight it or how to bring it up...test case maybe? Trying to come up with a plan of action. Help is greatly appreciated. I really don't see how it's not a violation of the 2A to ban firearms from an entire section of the city.

  4. #4
    Regular Member CCinMaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Windham, Maine
    Posts
    193

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Good luck. Sounds like you will be talking with a lawyer on this one. Doesn't seem like it would be an easy fight. Why would you need a gun around those people who are so much more important then us anyways?! Lol.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Harrison
    Posts
    463
    16-219 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

    BUREAU OF CAPITOL SECURITY

    CHAPTER 41 Capitol Area Security Rules

    1. Definitions

    The following words and phrases, when used in these regulations, shall have the following meanings, unless a different meaning is plainly required by the context:

    A. "Capitol Area" when used in these regulations shall mean the land, building, personal property and facilities owned, leased, occupied, used or possessed by the State in or at:

    (1) The Capitol Area described in I M.R.S.A., Section 814, and

    (2) The District Court Building on State Street, and

    (3) The State Police Barracks and Garage on Hospital Street, and

    (4) Blaine House Complex, and

    (5) Blaine Memorial, and

    (6) The Augusta Mental Health Institute Complex, and

    (7) ANY OTHER STATE CONTROLLED LOCATIONS, WHETHER ITS OWNED, LEASED, OR JUST USED BY THE STATE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF AUGUSTA, MAINE.

    B. "Time" whenever certain hours of time are named here in shall mean Standard Time or Daylight Time as may be in current use in this State.

    C. "Mini-bike" shall mean any motor operated two wheel vehicle not licensed by the Secretary of State, Division of Motor Vehicles.

    D. "Person" every natural person, firm, partnership, association or corporation.

    E. "Police Officer" every sworn officer of the Bureau of Capitol Security or any law enforcement officer authorized to issue process for civil or criminal violations.

    F. "Snowmobile" means any vehicle propelled by mechanical power that is primarily designed to travel over ice or snow supported in part by skis, belts or cleats.

    2. Regulations

    A. The COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC SAFETY is empowered to close, secure and limit access to all or a portion of the Capitol Area at stated times during hours when the state offices are closed, or, without prior notice, at any other time should a situation develop wherein all or a portion of the Capitol Area becomes jeopardized by the actions of any person or persons.

    B. No person shall cause or participate in a demonstration of any nature in the Capitol Area unless written permission for such demonstration has been obtained from the COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC SAFETY or his Designee. An application, in writing setting forth information as may be required, is necessary prior to the granting of any permit.

    C. No person shall cause injury or damage to the trees, shrubbery or flowers in the Capitol Area, or damage, mar or deface the buildings, personal property or facilities thereon in any way.

    D. No person shall attach or place a handbill or advertising material on any vehicle parking in the Capitol Area.

    E. No person shall allow a pet to enter the Capitol Area without a physical restraint.

    F. No person, except a police officer on duty, shall carry firearms, dangerous weapons, explosives, incendiary devices, or implements which by their nature are capable of being used to destroy or injure a person or property in the Capitol Area.

    G. No person shall possess or consume any alcoholic beverage in the Capitol Area, except at the Blaine House Complex with the Governor's permission.

    H. No person shall discard litter, as defined in 17 M.R.S.A., Section 2263, sub-section 2, in the Capitol Area except in the containers provided therefor.

    I. No person shall, without the prior written authorization of the CHIEF OF CAPITOL SECURITY light or add fuel to an outdoor fire in the Capitol Area, except one which is confined to a fireplace furnished for the purpose by the DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS.

    J. No person shall solicit, give away, canvass, sell or offer for sale items or materials or make collections for past or current obligations in the Capitol Area without written authorization from the Bureau of Capitol security.

    K. No person shall operate a mini-bike, snowmobile, all terrain vehicle or unregistered vehicle in the Capitol Area.

    L. No person shall utilize the Capitol Area for any type of sports or athletic events, either formal or informal, except in those sections designed by the DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS or SUPERINTENDENT OF AUGUSTA MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTE or with permission from the CHIEF OF CAPITOL SECURITY.

    M. Persons or organizations seeking to use a designated portion of the Capitol Area must obtain a written permit by applying, in writing, to the COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC SAFETY or his designee, and specifying the use intended and the persons responsible for the supervision of the activity.

    3. Penalties

    Any person found guilty of violating any of these regulations shall, upon conviction, be punished as provided in Revised Statutes, Title 25, Section 2910.


    AUTHORITY: 25 M.R.S.A., Section 2904

    EFFECTIVE DATE: June 11, 1979 (Filed 7-31-79)

    AMENDED: October 15, 1980
    January 11, 1988
    July 3, 1988

    EFFECTIVE DATE (ELECTRONIC CONVERSION): MAY 15, 1996

    CHALLENGES WERE MADE IN 2010 & 2011 WITHOUT SUCCESS IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMMITTEE AND THE LEGISLATURE PJM
    Paul J. Mattson
    NRA Certified Instructor / RSO
    #63731855
    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by CCinMaine View Post
    Good luck. Sounds like you will be talking with a lawyer on this one. Doesn't seem like it would be an easy fight. Why would you need a gun around those people who are so much more important then us anyways?! Lol.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    Lol I'm sure it won't be an easy fight. I don't plan to be the test case either lol

    MaineCWPTrain-thanks didn't know it had been challenged before. Any idea where I can find audio recordings and the challenge writings? How was it challenged? I'm sure the only way it will be changed is through suit. Trying to change the legislature usually doesn't work too well. I'm sure the people if Augusta would be pleased.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by SPOProds View Post
    Lol I'm sure it won't be an easy fight. I don't plan to be the test case either lol

    MaineCWPTrain-thanks didn't know it had been challenged before. Any idea where I can find audio recordings and the challenge writings? How was it challenged? I'm sure the only way it will be changed is through suit. Trying to change the legislature usually doesn't work too well. I'm sure the people if Augusta would be pleased.
    It wasn't challenged in court. It was brought to the legislature to try and change it. They tabled the bill and did not act. In order for a suit to be successful the first step is you would need to find a person willing to be the plaintiff. That person would need to be able to show actual harm from the law. I would think someone living inside the restricted zone that desires to own a firearm would be the best bet. Second you'd need to find a lawyer to file the case.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Harrison
    Posts
    463
    CHALLENGES WERE MADE IN 2010 & 2011 WITHOUT SUCCESS IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMMITTEE AND THE LEGISLATURE PJM
    I thought I was clear where the challenges were made.
    Paul J. Mattson
    NRA Certified Instructor / RSO
    #63731855
    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Maine CWP Training View Post
    I thought I was clear where the challenges were made.
    yeah, he probably didn't read all the way through lol. I read it though or he didn't know what "Criminal Justice Committee" was.
    Last edited by boyscout399; 08-29-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    yeah, he probably didn't read all the way through lol. I read it though or he didn't know what "Criminal Justice Committee" was.
    I got this and that it wasnt filed in court. Didn't know what the CJC was. Was on my phone and couldn't look it up. Was hoping someone would give me a quick answer lol Also don't have regular PC access so it's hard to look up dead bills. I probably worded my response before wrong, I understood where it was fought, but not how, if that makes sense. Thanks as always guys.
    Last edited by SPOProds; 08-29-2012 at 03:54 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    It wasn't challenged in court. It was brought to the legislature to try and change it. They tabled the bill and did not act. In order for a suit to be successful the first step is you would need to find a person willing to be the plaintiff. That person would need to be able to show actual harm from the law. I would think someone living inside the restricted zone that desires to own a firearm would be the best bet. Second you'd need to find a lawyer to file the case.
    Yes but.......more specifically. What is needed is a person with standing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yes but.......more specifically. What is needed is a person with standing.
    I'm still learning guys so bear with me. But, wouldn't anyone shopping in the Capitol Area our visiting friends have standing as well as a resident or store owner? I understand it's a long shot from what you guys are saying, I'm just interested. Maybe I'll rent a room in Augusta.
    Last edited by SPOProds; 09-02-2012 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711
    I went thru this issue a couple of years ago with Shane Belanger of the Maine Open Carry Association - it appeared to us that the Bureau of Capitol Security lacks the statutory power to enforce gun carry regulations - Maine residents should take this on thru law suit or perhaps a petition for rulemaking change.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I went thru this issue a couple of years ago with Shane Belanger of the Maine Open Carry Association - it appeared to us that the Bureau of Capitol Security lacks the statutory power to enforce gun carry regulations - Maine residents should take this on thru law suit or perhaps a petition for rulemaking change.
    It falls under the Commissioner of Public Safety, whom does have the authority. However, I see this authority bearing weight only on State property. The Capitol Area includes state property but isn't entirely state property. Preemption doesn't play a part because Public Safety is a state department.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Harrison
    Posts
    463
    The Bureau of Capitol Police is a law enforcement agency responsible for the safety of the people and the security of the buildings that make up Maine’s seat of government. Areas of responsibility include the State House, the other State buildings within the Capitol Area campus, and the buildings on the eastside of the river within the old Augusta Mental Health campus. Bureau police officers patrol State owned or controlled properties in Augusta, enforce laws, including parking and traffic regulations, and respond to alarms and other calls for help or assistance on the two campuses. The Bureau's night watchpersons check the security of approximately 50 State owned buildings and properties in Augusta and Hallowell at night and on weekends.
    For more information about any of the listed topics, please don’t hesitate to call the Capitol Police office at 207-287-4357.

    John E. Morris
    Commissioner

    Russell J. Gauvin
    Chief

    Office located at:

    Room 111, Cross State Office Building, 111 Sewall St., Augusta, ME 04333-0068

    Voice: 207-287-HELP (4357) Email: CapitolPolice@maine.gov TTY: (207) 287-4478
    Last edited by Maine CWP Training; 09-03-2012 at 07:14 AM.
    Paul J. Mattson
    NRA Certified Instructor / RSO
    #63731855
    Maine CWP Training
    101 Main St.
    Harrison, ME 04040

    www.mainecwptraining.com

    (207) 583-4723
    CELL 232-7063

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I went thru this issue a couple of years ago with Shane Belanger of the Maine Open Carry Association - it appeared to us that the Bureau of Capitol Security lacks the statutory power to enforce gun carry regulations - Maine residents should take this on thru law suit or perhaps a petition for rulemaking change.
    Because the Bureau of Capitol Security is in fact a state entity, it has the authority to regulate guns. It's a hole in the state pre-emption law. Just like the state park service until recently had the power to regulate guns through the rulemaking laws. A couple of years ago they limited the Park Service's rule making provision, but they have not limited any other state agency's rulemaking laws to prohibit them from regulating guns. I submitted a bill to change the pre-emption law so that it leaves firearm law in the power of the legislature alone and added subdivisions of the state to the list of people prohibited from making gun rules. It did not get out of committee.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Because the Bureau of Capitol Security is in fact a state entity, it has the authority to regulate guns. It's a hole in the state pre-emption law. Just like the state park service until recently had the power to regulate guns through the rulemaking laws. A couple of years ago they limited the Park Service's rule making provision, but they have not limited any other state agency's rulemaking laws to prohibit them from regulating guns. I submitted a bill to change the pre-emption law so that it leaves firearm law in the power of the legislature alone and added subdivisions of the state to the list of people prohibited from making gun rules. It did not get out of committee.
    Don't quit, not ever. Get other people and groups on board - motorcycle organizations, Tea Party, et al. When you start to make forward progress, the NRA may even think of it first

    Lobby, educate and lobby.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    I guess if I rode my Bicycle from Fairfield to the Vietnam War Memorial in Capitol Park in Augusta.
    I would be in violation of their rules, if I carried my 45 for protection on my trip.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orono, ME
    Posts
    467

    Re: Fight Against "Capitol Area" Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch00 View Post
    I guess if I rode my Bicycle from Fairfield to the Vietnam War Memorial in Capitol Park in Augusta.
    I would be in violation of their rules, if I carried my 45 for protection on my trip.
    Certainly would be.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Because the Bureau of Capitol Security is in fact a state entity, it has the authority to regulate guns.
    No, this issue is not about state preemption - state preemption statute(s) in Maine, like most states, apply to localities, not state agencies.

    As a general matter of administrative law, state agencies cannot just issue regulations willy nilly - their power is confined by the enabling legislation. "Statutes granting power to administrative agencies are strictly construed to permit only those powers given expressly or by necessary implication[i]. An agency or board created by the legislature has powers which are expressly or impliedly conferred on it by statute. Such statutes are generally strictly construed to prevent the exercise of power which is not expressly granted[ii]. In Mayland v. Flitner, 2001 WY 69 (Wyo. 2001), the court held that a statute will be strictly construed when determining the authority granted to an agency. The court further held that any agency decision that falls outside the limits of the statutory guidelines expressed by the legislature is contrary to law and cannot stand." http://administrativelaw.uslegal.com...ranting-powers

    So if you contend that the Bureau of Capitol Security has the power to regulate gun carry, please cite to authority, e.g., the statute enabling the Bureau of Capitol Security to issue regulations in the first place, and point out where the statute enables the Bureau to regulate gun carry.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    No, this issue is not about state preemption - state preemption statute(s) in Maine, like most states, apply to localities, not state agencies.

    As a general matter of administrative law, state agencies cannot just issue regulations willy nilly - their power is confined by the enabling legislation. "Statutes granting power to administrative agencies are strictly construed to permit only those powers given expressly or by necessary implication[i]. An agency or board created by the legislature has powers which are expressly or impliedly conferred on it by statute. Such statutes are generally strictly construed to prevent the exercise of power which is not expressly granted[ii]. In Mayland v. Flitner, 2001 WY 69 (Wyo. 2001), the court held that a statute will be strictly construed when determining the authority granted to an agency. The court further held that any agency decision that falls outside the limits of the statutory guidelines expressed by the legislature is contrary to law and cannot stand." http://administrativelaw.uslegal.com...ranting-powers

    So if you contend that the Bureau of Capitol Security has the power to regulate gun carry, please cite to authority, e.g., the statute enabling the Bureau of Capitol Security to issue regulations in the first place, and point out where the statute enables the Bureau to regulate gun carry.
    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...ch375sec0.html

    Those are the statutes applying to agency rulemaking. Maine gives pretty much unlimited authority for state agencies to make rules, and those rules do hold the weight of law. That's why I wanted to put into the pre-emption statute a clause to limit state agencies rule making powers pertaining to firearms.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...ch375sec0.html

    Those are the statutes applying to agency rulemaking. Maine gives pretty much unlimited authority for state agencies to make rules, and those rules do hold the weight of law. That's why I wanted to put into the pre-emption statute a clause to limit state agencies rule making powers pertaining to firearms.
    8. Appropriate reference to underlying federal and state laws and regulations. At the time of adoption of any rule, the agency shall refer with particularity to any underlying federal or state law or regulation which serves as the basis of the rule.
    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...ch375sec0.html

    Why does this not put it right back where Mike indicated?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lyman, Maine
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    8. Appropriate reference to underlying federal and state laws and regulations. At the time of adoption of any rule, the agency shall refer with particularity to any underlying federal or state law or regulation which serves as the basis of the rule.
    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...ch375sec0.html

    Why does this not put it right back where Mike indicated?
    Notice that it does not say that it must have a underlying federal or state law serving as the basis of the rule. It only says that they need to refer to any that are underlying laws serving as the basis of the rule. It's tricky language, but it doesn't actually require there to be a basis, just that if there is a basis, it must be stated. The fact of the matter is that the rule WAS legally adopted and IS in effect.
    Last edited by boyscout399; 09-04-2012 at 12:24 AM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    215
    It violates the Right to Bear Arms, A Constitutional Right which means it is VOID.
    Life is tough, its tougher when your stupid.

    http://www.itsnotthelaw.com

    Feds: U.C.C. 1-308, State: U.C.C. 1-207, Both: U.C.C. 1-103.6

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    8. Appropriate reference to underlying federal and state laws and regulations. At the time of adoption of any rule, the agency shall refer with particularity to any underlying federal or state law or regulation which serves as the basis of the rule.
    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...ch375sec0.html

    Why does this not put it right back where Mike indicated?
    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    Notice that it does not say that it must have a underlying federal or state law serving as the basis of the rule. It only says that they need to refer to any that are underlying laws serving as the basis of the rule. It's tricky language, but it doesn't actually require there to be a basis, just that if there is a basis, it must be stated. The fact of the matter is that the rule WAS legally adopted and IS in effect.
    I would surely (I did) have read that to mean that w/o any statutory authority then there would be no basis. Therefore no permissible rule. Has this ever been contested in court?

    Frankly, I've never seen such carte blanch as you indicate - I'm truly appalled.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •