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Thread: Bizarre Home Invasion Defense..

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    Bizarre Home Invasion Defense..

    Some interesting lessons to take from this one..
    1) You NEVER know WTF is going to come crashing through your door in the middle of the night...
    2) If stuck using birdshot- shoot twice!

    Joanne Farley, 68, has always been a light sleeper. So when a man burst through her French doors last Thursday covered in blood, she was ready to defend herself.

    It started about 4:30 a.m. with a man using a knife to pry open a sun-room door of another home down the street in the 500 block of Arlington Road in Jacksonville. Homeowner Maya Trout, 33, fired birdshot at him after discovering the intruder when his dog started barking, police said.

    The wounded man ran down the hill and into the Farley home, toppling through their granddaughter’s pool floats, tossing his knife on the kitchen counter and stumbling into their bedroom. He yelled, “They’re after me,” and handed Farley her phone begging her to call the police, she said Wednesday.

    After losing sight of him, Farley realized her bathroom door, which is always open, was shut. She pushed it open, and the man pushed back. He grabbed her, and she grabbed his T-shirt right back. She told the 6-foot-2 man he was hurting her.

    “I wouldn’t hurt you for anything in the world,” the bloodied man said.

    They continued to tussle until her 68-year-old husband, Joseph Farley, who had triple bypass surgery last year, entered the bathroom and tried to grab the intruder. But the man grabbed Farley’s arm and pushed him out of the way.

    He continued to run wildly through the house, Joanne Farley said.

    “He was whacked on drugs, and he was very, very high,” she said.

    She was able to corner him in the laundry room and called 911. Meanwhile, her husband grabbed his gun from the bedroom and held the man at gunpoint until police arrived.

    “My home is my domain, and I’m going to protect it,” she said. “Any woman would.”

    Afterward, her nightgown was covered with blood. Both of her arms are still severely bruised.

    Alejandro Antonio Carlson, 32, of Haverhill Street was taken to Shands Jacksonville hospital and is now held on $50,000 bail, charged with armed burglary and assault. He has had five arrests in Jacksonville and at least one in Marion County, jail records show.

    “When someone bursts through your house and you’re sound asleep, you don’t think,” Joanne Farley said.

    Instead, these neighbors reacted.

    Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2...#ixzz24vwVOHwy

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    Last edited by zack991; 08-29-2012 at 10:43 AM.
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    maybe he is the assessor just trying to catch up on some work..lol

    He had bad luck that night.

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    I teach in-home defense with my business and cover the quandry of the shotgun load. It's a crap shoot and the choice has to be made wisely. If you have others in the home, especially children, that might be at risk by a blow through from 00 or 000 buck, the bird shot is the way to go. Inside the home it will pattern rather nicely and all of those pellets are going to make a mess. If you have less of a risk of others being injured, especially if you're out in the country, the 00 and 000 buck may be a better option. I'm a believer of follow-up shots and recoil management, so the large buck shot is out for my needs. The length of a shotgun also makes me shy away from that choice and go to a handgun. I feel sorry for the dirtbag that encounters one of my projects...Saiga 12 with a trigger relocation, slide fire stock, and a drum....heaven forbid if I decide to file the paperwork to make this a SBS.

    There's a reason I tend to stress keeping a handgun on your person or within immediate access anywhere you are in the home. The bathroom example in this article is an example of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REALteach4u View Post
    I teach in-home defense with my business and cover the quandry of the shotgun load. It's a crap shoot and the choice has to be made wisely. If you have others in the home, especially children, that might be at risk by a blow through from 00 or 000 buck, the bird shot is the way to go. Inside the home it will pattern rather nicely and all of those pellets are going to make a mess. If you have less of a risk of others being injured, especially if you're out in the country, the 00 and 000 buck may be a better option. I'm a believer of follow-up shots and recoil management, so the large buck shot is out for my needs. The length of a shotgun also makes me shy away from that choice and go to a handgun. I feel sorry for the dirtbag that encounters one of my projects...Saiga 12 with a trigger relocation, slide fire stock, and a drum....heaven forbid if I decide to file the paperwork to make this a SBS.

    There's a reason I tend to stress keeping a handgun on your person or within immediate access anywhere you are in the home. The bathroom example in this article is an example of that.

    Indeed. I'm not sure if this is the case or not,here, but most folks in this area just keep a .410 w/ birdshot handy around the home for use against snakes. I'm inclined to think this might be the case here, due to their ages, etc. We get a LOT of Rattlesnake/Cottonmouths out here,especially this time of yr. with all the rains, etc.
    Meaning, this was the weapon/load they had available at the time- primarily for snake use vs. home-defense considerations.

    Also, not sure if true or just wishful-thinking, but I'd heard that a fellow, local citizen, who heard about this case, has donated a pump-action 12, and a case of shells to the familly, to rectify their HD needs.
    Agreed on the side-arm, as I carry 24/7 in and around the home, myself, for the same reasoning.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    I OC a handgun at all times when at home. But if I have time to get to the pump action loaded with 1oz slugs it would be my choice.
    I appreciate the shot argument but I have seen what the slugs do to a deer and it is my choice if I am forced to stop a home invasion.
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    I just want to thank everybody for not saying anything about how the sound of a pump-action shotgun will scare the BG home invader away.

    On the other hand, the sound of a pump-action shotgun (or a handgun) firing may well do the trick.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I OC a handgun at all times when at home. But if I have time to get to the pump action loaded with 1oz slugs it would be my choice.
    I appreciate the shot argument but I have seen what the slugs do to a deer and it is my choice if I am forced to stop a home invasion.
    See we agree on two things and disagree on one here.

    1) I either OC my revolver at home or have it in arms reach. like right now when I'm at the computer it's sitting up on the desk
    2) I think shotguns are a great home defense weapon
    3) I do NOT prefer slugs. my yard is only .6 acres and we're in a conventional type house. I think a slug is too likely to penetrate to many walls. right now I have a pump shotgun I can use for home defense, becuase I haven't bothered to take the "hunting tube" out i only have three shots though, so the first two are #4 buck shot and the third is #7.5 bird (becuase we raise chickens the bird shell is for raccoons or other predators, i'd have to rack the slide and expell the buck shells to get to it though. I think the buck shells with less velocity and that lose speed faster are less likely to hit dear old granny smith down the block then a solid slug, A friend of mine who's a sheriff's deputy said he's seen slugs go straight through both ends of a car and then through another car.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-01-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: wrong ammo type posted
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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    See we agree on two things and disagree on one here.

    1) I either OC my revolver at home or have it in arms reach. like right now when I'm at the computer it's sitting up on the desk
    2) I think shotguns are a great home defense weapon
    3) I do NOT prefer slugs. my yard is only .6 acres and we're in a conventional type house. I think a slug is too likely to penetrate to many walls. right now I have a pump shotgun I can use for home defense, becuase I haven't bothered to take the "hunting tube" out i only have three shots though, so the first two are #4 buck shot and the third is #7.5 bird (becuase we raise chickens the bird shell is for raccoons or other predators, i'd have to rack the slide and expell the buck shells to get to it though. I think the buck shells with less velocity and that lose speed faster are less likely to hit dear old granny smith down the block then a solid slug, A friend of mine who's a sheriff's deputy said he's seen slugs go straight through both ends of a car and then through another car.
    Fair enough. You use what you like I'll use what I like

    Although your buddy's story seems a little incredible. I have a buddy that swears the hand full of people that rule this country are actually lizard people.

    I like slugs. I practice with slugs. They are my projectile of choice when hunting deer with a shotgun and I'm pretty confident in what they will do. I don't have many worries about what's outside my home as I live in a 5 acre min sub division and don't have much around. As far as wall penetration I use the same practices/plans with any ammo. I wouldn't "count on" #4 buck not penetrating to a loved one on the other side of a wall if I were you. Better to be safe.
    Last edited by twoskinsonemanns; 09-01-2012 at 04:40 PM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Fair enough. You use what you like I'll use what I like

    Although your buddy's story seems a little incredible. I have a buddy that swears the hand full of people that rule this country are actually lizard people.

    I like slugs. I practice with slugs. They are my projectile of choice when hunting deer with a shotgun and I'm pretty confident in what they will do. I don't have many worries about what's outside my home as I live in a 5 acre min sub division and don't have much around. As far as wall penetration I use the same practices/plans with any ammo. I wouldn't "count on" #4 buck not penetrating to a loved one on the other side of a wall if I were you. Better to be safe.
    I'm worried about slugs LEAVING THE HOUSE, our home set up all but guarantees that (at least at night) the family will be safe, all the rooms are on one side of the house, and the easy ingresses are on the other half. futhermore, if we're firing down my hallway at an intruder approaching the "safe room" the shells/ bullets are flying directly towards a book shelf, or the brick chimney on the outside of the house, the leaves a narrow band that worries me, where it's only the sheetrock and matbe some bicycles on the other side. My theory is though is that the buck shot will lose speed fast enough after penetrating my wall that my neighbors outer wall will stop any stray shot.

    as far as cars, he specified "doors and a trunk" not the engine block, I think most engines have enough steel to stop most bullets or shot shells, we'd need to get up to .50 BMG to punch a hole in a block, especially the big V8 and V6 engines that are popular in America...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Cool Protecting your family.

    Check out granny!!
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammer View Post
    Check out granny!!

    She wouldn't by any chance be this lady would she?

    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by jammer View Post
    Check out granny!!
    While I agree that by the letter of the law, what she did was wrong. Morally, though, I applaud her. Heck, she even verified these were the right people (by showing a photo to the victim for positive identification) before she acted.

    And my favorite part of the story?

    Now, baffled lawmen are trying to figure out exactly how to deal with the vigilante granny. "What she did was wrong, and she broke the law, but it is difficult to throw an 81-year-old woman in prison," Det. Delp said, "especially when 3 million people in the city want to nominate her for Mayor."
    ETA: *sigh* Too bad it's not true: http://www.snopes.com/crime/justice/grambo.asp
    Last edited by Riana; 09-02-2012 at 02:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riana View Post
    While I agree that by the letter of the law, what she did was wrong. Morally, though, I applaud her. Heck, she even verified these were the right people (by showing a photo to the victim for positive identification) before she acted.

    ETA: *sigh* Too bad it's not true: http://www.snopes.com/crime/justice/grambo.asp

    I want to make 2 points here. Firstly that the little old lady VERIFIED the ID of the rapists before exacting vengeance for her grand daughter. Police Departments across America would do well to make 110% sure they have the CORRECT LOCATION before serving warrants on suspects. Especially no knock warrants.

    Secondly when governments disarm law abiding people in the interest of public safety not all (former) law abiding people are foolish enough to believe the fools in government service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    See we agree on two things and disagree on one here.

    1) I either OC my revolver at home or have it in arms reach. like right now when I'm at the computer it's sitting up on the desk
    2) I think shotguns are a great home defense weapon
    3) I do NOT prefer slugs. my yard is only .6 acres and we're in a conventional type house. I think a slug is too likely to penetrate to many walls. right now I have a pump shotgun I can use for home defense, becuase I haven't bothered to take the "hunting tube" out i only have three shots though, so the first two are #4 buck shot and the third is #7.5 bird (becuase we raise chickens the bird shell is for raccoons or other predators, i'd have to rack the slide and expell the buck shells to get to it though. I think the buck shells with less velocity and that lose speed faster are less likely to hit dear old granny smith down the block then a solid slug, A friend of mine who's a sheriff's deputy said he's seen slugs go straight through both ends of a car and then through another car.
    Ok, full-stop. More urban legend, and interweb forum mythology. Slugs are not super-loads, and they are most certainly NOT going to plow clean through vehicles (even cheezy ones made nowdays) end-to-end. The End.
    The clearly will plow through sheetrock, and clapboard shanty houses (but so will a pencil if you throw it hard enough) ,but they will not pass through bricks, or cinder blocks, etc.

    This isnt "opinion" this isnt "i think" it's simple fact, and physics.I've tested my own slugs, extensively, in order to verify what they can or cannot penetrate, before choosing to load them for H.D. I've tested remington sluggers in .410 and 12, and winchester pdx 1 (buck and slug).
    In actual use, they perform much more like a hollowpoint handgun round, than some cannonball round.

    Need to verify for yourself? Get an old computer tower (most folks have at least one old comp that's crapped out on em laying around), or a couple of sandbags, and have at it. It will penetrate, no doubt, but- usually dumps it's load very very quickly, expands and/or flattens-out into a large disc, or shatters into a few million pieces.
    Would I consider them "safe" for use in an apt. or a duplex, or one of those frame and siding houses? No, not entirely-but no more or less so than the hardball in my .45 -main difference is, the whole is a lot bigger, and it thumps what it hits a lot harder. But it's not going to go sailing down the block piercing one house after another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Also some good, realistic, and quiet accurate info here- slugs come into play near the bottom.

    http://www.frfrogspad.com/shotgun.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Also some good, realistic, and quiet accurate info here- slugs come into play near the bottom.

    http://www.frfrogspad.com/shotgun.htm
    My shotguns are loaded with birdshot, if I need to use them for longer range outside the same rounds can be used by cutting two lines with a knife just above the powder line. When fired the casing will seperate and the upper casing, wad and bird shot will perform like a glasser round. This does not work in pumps though, I use double barrel shotguns. And only should be used in well built shotguns with improved choke or no choke. They are accurate to 50 yards.

    I also reload 12 gauge rounds and make range loads(lighter) with 7x31 caliber cap and ball bullets, using cream of wheat for filler in the cup. One could do this by using a skeet round emptying out the pellets and replacing them with the desired size lead ball and filler. Crimping would have to be done by hand though, but should not be that difficult.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-05-2012 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    My shotguns are loaded with birdshot, if I need to use them for longer range outside the same rounds can be used by cutting two lines with a knife just above the powder line. When fired the casing will seperate and the upper casing, wad and bird shot will perform like a glasser round. This does not work in pumps though, I use double barrel shotguns. And only should be used in well built shotguns with improved choke or no choke. They are accurate to 50 yards.

    I also reload 12 gauge rounds and make range loads(lighter) with 7x31 caliber cap and ball bullets, using cream of wheat for filler in the cup. One could do this by using a skeet round emptying out the pellets and replacing them with the desired size lead ball and filler. Crimping would have to be done by hand though, but should not be that difficult.
    wow, you've really played around with shells.

    would you consider a Stevens 311 Side-by a "well built shotgun" for the purpose of your expiramental loads?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by noname762 View Post
    I want to make 2 points here. Firstly that the little old lady VERIFIED the ID of the rapists before exacting vengeance for her grand daughter. Police Departments across America would do well to make 110% sure they have the CORRECT LOCATION before serving warrants on suspects. Especially no knock warrants.

    Secondly when governments disarm law abiding people in the interest of public safety not all (former) law abiding people are foolish enough to believe the fools in government service.
    I want to make one point here, the story is a hoax
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    wow, you've really played around with shells.

    would you consider a Stevens 311 Side-by a "well built shotgun" for the purpose of your expiramental loads?
    How old of a Stevens? They have been around for a long time, I think it would be OK as long as it is not a Damascus barrels. Stevens was a well built gun. Actually they are not my loads, People have been using cut cartridges all the way back to when cartridges were still paper. As well as reloading target shells with milder home loads. You should be able to hunt the internet and find some pictures with instructions for the cut cartridges, as well as maybe a video. I believe there is also one on making wax birdshot loads. As long as you are not shooting out of a full choke you should be able to get away with it, I would also be leery of a modified choke. My dad used cut cartridges when I was young in the double he kept in his truck. Even though they are target loads they are higher pressure than normal target loads because of pushing the paper or plastic casing down the barrel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    How old of a Stevens? They have been around for a long time, I think it would be OK as long as it is not a Damascus barrels. Stevens was a well built gun. Actually they are not my loads, People have been using cut cartridges all the way back to when cartridges were still paper. As well as reloading target shells with milder home loads. You should be able to hunt the internet and find some pictures with instructions for the cut cartridges, as well as maybe a video. I believe there is also one on making wax birdshot loads. As long as you are not shooting out of a full choke you should be able to get away with it, I would also be leery of a modified choke. My dad used cut cartridges when I was young in the double he kept in his truck. Even though they are target loads they are higher pressure than normal target loads because of pushing the paper or plastic casing down the barrel.
    Cut-shell video

    Waxer shell video
    Last edited by HighFlyingA380; 09-06-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Indeed. I'm not sure if this is the case or not,here, but most folks in this area just keep a .410 w/ birdshot handy around the home for use against snakes. I'm inclined to think this might be the case here, due to their ages, etc. We get a LOT of Rattlesnake/Cottonmouths out here,especially this time of yr. with all the rains, etc.
    Meaning, this was the weapon/load they had available at the time- primarily for snake use vs. home-defense considerations.

    Also, not sure if true or just wishful-thinking, but I'd heard that a fellow, local citizen, who heard about this case, has donated a pump-action 12, and a case of shells to the familly, to rectify their HD needs.
    Agreed on the side-arm, as I carry 24/7 in and around the home, myself, for the same reasoning.

    What's the spread V look like on a .410 as it gains distance? Say starting at 21-25 feet and extending out to 15 yards.

    Watched the cut-shell video some time back. I have to wonder if this would be considered an unlawful modification of ammunition.
    Last edited by REALteach4u; 09-10-2012 at 02:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REALteach4u View Post
    What's the spread V look like on a .410 as it gains distance? Say starting at 21-25 feet and extending out to 15 yards.

    Watched the cut-shell video some time back. I have to wonder if this would be considered an unlawful modification of ammunition.
    Are there laws on the books that prevent a person from modifying ammo in any way? I have never heard of one myself so I am curious.

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr View Post
    Are there laws on the books that prevent a person from modifying ammo in any way? I have never heard of one myself so I am curious.

    Michael
    The only thing I can think that may be regulated is incendiary/explosive ammo. But making cutters or waxers, doubt it.
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