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Thread: For the Libertarians among us

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    Regular Member Tactical9mm's Avatar
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    For the Libertarians among us

    Help spread the word that there is an alternative to the establishment candidates that is worth voting for.

    Pass this link around to your friends, family and anyone else who doesn't know who Gary Johnson is. Anyone still "on the fence" who calls themselves a friend of liberty needs to watch this.

    This is Gary Johnson speaking at a recent rally.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLN5NBZ5KU

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    What is really sad is that when I try to promote Gary Johnson as a viable alternative than the two evils we currently face people seem to just ignore it. People ignore that we are broke and cannot support Medicare, Social Security, our other bloated social programs, let alone our military operations overseas. Both parties advocate more spending and big government. Unless we make some serious changes, our economy - and our country is toast! The beginning of the collapse of the Soviet Union was its inability to sustain its social and military infrastructure financially. Ignorance is bliss - reality is gonna kick our butts.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    He's got my vote. And my support financially.
    A vote for Obamney is a vote for big government and economic ruin.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It is not my fault that Gary Johnson is not more widely known. It is Gary Johnson's fault that he is not more widely known. Gary Johnson not getting any respect or media coverage is all on Gary Johnson.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Most people I know say, "OMG we must all back Romney to toss Obama out." No thanks. Obama and Romney are terrible for liberties. I have no idea how the heck republicans picked him...other than deep pockets of someone. I am voting Gary Johnson for President. There isn't any amount of money you have that you could pay me to change my mind.

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    Regular Member Tactical9mm's Avatar
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    The reality of the situation is that Gary WILL be taking at the very least five to six percent of the popular vote away from Romney (assuming the current poll numbers do not change). This means Romney has NO chance to defeat Obama, so a vote FOR Romney is actually a vote for Obama's second term.

    Our best case scenario is that the electorate realizes this simple truth and puts Gary in the White House this November. Gary getting into the upcoming debates will help this possibility.

    Either Gary or Barack is going to win it. Nobody else will.

    Barack winning it, with Gary taking at least five percent of the popular vote will at least give the Libertarian party some 90-100 million dollars in matching contributions for the next election. It will also put us in a merciful gridlock position (Dem: Executive branch, Repub: House, ???: Sen) that will insure that more unconstitutional legislation will not get passed. Things like the Patriot act, NDAA, cispa (to name just a few abominations).

    Let's hope to see an aware electorate make a real difference this time around.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is not my fault that Gary Johnson is not more widely known. It is Gary Johnson's fault that he is not more widely known. Gary Johnson not getting any respect or media coverage is all on Gary Johnson.
    +1

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is not my fault that Gary Johnson is not more widely known. It is Gary Johnson's fault that he is not more widely known. Gary Johnson not getting any respect or media coverage is all on Gary Johnson.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    +1
    +1 to what exactly? Plus one that it's Gary's fault he isn't getting media respect? Care to explain or just admit you'll "+1" any asinine statement as long as it sounds negative toward anyone other than Romney?
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    +1 to what exactly? Plus one that it's Gary's fault he isn't getting media respect? Care to explain or just admit you'll "+1" any asinine statement as long as it sounds negative toward anyone other than Romney?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is not my fault that Gary Johnson is not more widely known. It is Gary Johnson's fault that he is not more widely known. Gary Johnson not getting any respect or media coverage is all on Gary Johnson.
    Oh really? How did the media treat him when he was polling above those who were included in the GOP debates, while he was ignored?



    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical9mm View Post
    The reality of the situation is that Gary WILL be taking at the very least five to six percent of the popular vote away from Romney (assuming the current poll numbers do not change).
    Bullscat.

    Libertarian voters are not just disgruntled Republicans. A great many, probably 60%, would probably lean Democrat if not for the third party.

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    I'm voting for Kang .... you'll see

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical9mm View Post
    The reality of the situation is that Gary WILL be taking at the very least five to six percent of the popular vote away from Romney (assuming the current poll numbers do not change). This means Romney has NO chance to defeat Obama, so a vote FOR Romney is actually a vote for Obama's second term.
    WHAT? People should vote the heart, and their mind. But that aside Gary(I can't make up my mind which party I represent)Johnson has absolutely NO chance to win. Republicans will vote for Romney, Democrats will vote for Obama so while it does look like Obama will be reelected(more democrats than republicans) the Libertarian party is insignificant, the members spend most of their energy blaming others for their failure, and trying to infiltrate and subvert a party that does not want them(rightfully so). The leaves independents and a very small portion of moderates of both viable parties.

    The problem is the wacko anarchist libertarians claiming to be republicans are confusing the middle, which will make sure Obama wins. You want Obama, you have him, don't blame others for your failure.

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    Regular Member hjmoosejaw's Avatar
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    I think Romney accepts that they won't vote for him, and I think Obama counts on it.
    watch your top knot !

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjmoosejaw View Post
    I think Romney accepts that they won't vote for him, and I think Obama counts on it.
    I agree with that, I don't see Romney wasting time with wackos. He is mostly trying to appeal to those right of moderate, where when he was governor he tried to appeal to those left of moderate. Obama does not give a rat's behind about appeal or responsibility, he plays the game during the election cycle, and after winning flips off his voters. If he get's bothered by anybody, even his own, he throws them under the bus.

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    Regular Member Tactical9mm's Avatar
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    KBCraig,

    One look at http://www.lp.org/issues will immediately differentiate a Libertarian from a democrat. 60% does not seem a reasonable number.

    We do have a few things in common with the republican party, but that is rapidly dwindling as they continue to embrace Police-State politics, an imperialistic foreign policy, and other countless domestic economic issues.

    Walkingwolf,

    They said Gary had no chance to win when he ran for Governor of New Mexico where the voting electorate was two democrat to one republican, and he was running against an incumbant. Gary won, and in his second term he was elected by an even greater ratio.

    Gary CAN win now because (Unlike Romney) he can bring in votes from the disenfranchised Obama voters that supported Obama's election in 2008. He can also bring in votes from the republican voters who aren't satisfied with the candidate (arguably the worst in the history of the party) that has been crammed down their throats.

    To say the Libertarian party is not significant, when it is the ONLY political party in America today that TRULY supports limited constitutional government, and personal liberty, is not an accurate statement.

    The real reason Obama will be getting a second term is because of the republican party. Two back to back RINO tickets; McCain in 2008 (for his first term), and now Romney in 2012 (for his second term). Don't blame the Libertarians. Blame the ones voting for the real "unelectable" candidate.

    "Wacko" must mean belief in a government bound by the US Constitution, I assume?
    Last edited by Tactical9mm; 09-09-2012 at 01:06 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical9mm View Post
    KBCraig,

    One look at http://www.lp.org/issues will immediately differentiate a Libertarian from a democrat. 60% does not seem a reasonable number.

    We do have a few things in common with the republican party, but that is rapidly dwindling as they continue to embrace Police-State politics, an imperialistic foreign policy, and other countless domestic economic issues.

    Walkingwolf,

    They said Gary had no chance to win when he ran for Governor of New Mexico where the voting electorate was two democrat to one republican, and he was running against an incumbant. Gary won, and in his second term he was elected by an even greater ratio.

    Gary CAN win now because (Unlike Romney) he can bring in votes from the disenfranchised Obama voters that supported Obama's election in 2008. He can also bring in votes from the republican voters who aren't satisfied with the candidate (arguably the worst in the history of the party) that has been crammed down their throats.

    To say the Libertarian party is not significant, when it is the ONLY political party in America today that TRULY supports limited constitutional government, and personal liberty, is not an accurate statement.

    The real reason Obama will be getting a second term is because of the republican party. Two back to back RINO tickets; McCain in 2008 (for his first term), and now Romney in 2012 (for his second term). Don't blame the Libertarians. Blame the ones voting for the real "unelectable" candidate.

    "Wacko" must mean belief in a government bound by the US Constitution, I assume?
    The size of both the Republican and the Democrat party faithful far outweigh any chance of winning. He would have to pull more than half of both major party, and that is not going to happen since his minions are running around insulting both parties and their representatives. The only hope the libertarian party has is to grow over time as a respectable party. So far they have done far from that by nominating republicans, courting nut cases, insulting republicans, and generally letting nut case anarchists to speak for them. Right now most people make fun of the libertarian party as the party of tin foil hats. Check huff post forums, they outright make fun of the "crazies". So it boils down to the anarchists attempted a takeover of the republican party and the democrat party thinks they are idiots. And dems are not going to vote for a turn coat republican, he is a traitor and goes against what they believe. So what it boils down to is, Obama wins, dems think Libertarians are nut cases, and republicans are going to blame rather than embrace the libertarian party.

    Way to go guys!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical9mm View Post
    KBCraig,

    One look at http://www.lp.org/issues will immediately differentiate a Libertarian from a democrat. 60% does not seem a reasonable number.
    Voters seldom look at party platforms. They respond to what they hear. When the most well known LP issues are anti-war, anti-prohibition, and equal marriage rights, it's very reasonable that they draw Democrats who are disgruntled with Obama. The percentage of Republicans who disagree with the party on those issues is very small.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Voters seldom look at party platforms. They respond to what they hear. When the most well known LP issues are anti-war, anti-prohibition, and equal marriage rights, it's very reasonable that they draw Democrats who are disgruntled with Obama. The percentage of Republicans who disagree with the party on those issues is very small.
    You mean the way the disgruntled democrats turned to the green party in 2000. Where is the green party today? The green party without a doubt kept Al Gore from winning. How many democrats ran to the green party? To this day the green party was damaged by their attempt to do the very same thing the libertarian party is doing. If the election is as close as 2000, neither the democrats or the republicans, depending on who loses, will forgive the libertarian party. It amazes me that people never learn from history.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The size of both the Republican and the Democrat party faithful far outweigh any chance of winning. He would have to pull more than half of both major party, and that is not going to happen since his minions are running around insulting both parties and their representatives. The only hope the libertarian party has is to grow over time as a respectable party. So far they have done far from that by nominating republicans, courting nut cases, insulting republicans, and generally letting nut case anarchists to speak for them. Right now most people make fun of the libertarian party as the party of tin foil hats. Check huff post forums, they outright make fun of the "crazies". So it boils down to the anarchists attempted a takeover of the republican party and the democrat party thinks they are idiots. And dems are not going to vote for a turn coat republican, he is a traitor and goes against what they believe. So what it boils down to is, Obama wins, dems think Libertarians are nut cases, and republicans are going to blame rather than embrace the libertarian party.

    Way to go guys!
    I'm proud to be associated with a movement the totalitarian idiots consider crazy.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    I'm proud to be associated with a movement the totalitarian idiots consider crazy.
    Well once the libertarian party becomes like the green party, some of the idiots can then go screw up the socialist party, maybe the communist party after that. The result will be the same the two major parties will continue to make fun of them.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Well once the libertarian party becomes like the green party, some of the idiots can then go screw up the socialist party, maybe the communist party after that. The result will be the same the two major parties will continue to make fun of them.
    Thanks to unprincipled, complacent group-thinkers like you.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Thanks to unprincipled, complacent group-thinkers like you.
    You have no idea why and who supports what, and if they are complacent or not. Not only is it ignorant it is damaging to the future of the libertarian party. One thing that republicans and democrats agree on is pushy, self centered, thinking they can push and force others to think the way they do. You don't have to like reps and dems, but the libertarian party better respect them if they want to not lose what little support they have left. In other words you should worry about your own backyard before complaining about others. Hate filled thinkers always lose in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You mean the way the disgruntled democrats turned to the green party in 2000. Where is the green party today?
    Right where they were before 2000.

    Unlike the Greens, the LP has a 40+ year history, and a solid organization. What the LP almost did not survive, was Barr/Root.

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    Regular Member Tactical9mm's Avatar
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    For any New Hampshire locals who helped secure the signatures that allowed us to put local Libertarian candidates on the ballot for the upcoming general election, thank you very much!

    http://lpnh.org/candidates

    (is the most recent list available).

    Now on the subject of "respect": the national republicans are clearly not demonstrating that quality with regard to Gary Johnson's campaign. They have been litigating against Gary in attempts to keep his name off the ballot in many States for the upcoming general election. The tally stands right now at three States still in litigation, but they should soon be resolved favorably for Gary as he has met or exceeded the minimum criteria to get on the ballot in these locations.

    I'm predicting that the republican party won't be around for much longer. In fact, I see them going the way of the Whig party, and for essentially the same reasons. Factions, and division.

    You have your moderates, conservatives, and theocrats. This nomination process for Romney was painful for all of those factions, and they are not united going into the election. These internal divisions, combined with voter perception of what the party is really about will be the nail in the coffin. It's just a matter of time.

    When the Whig 2.0 implosion happens, the Libertarian party will be there to step in as one of the new major parties. It will be a great time for America when that day arrives.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    ........... the two major parties will continue to make fun of them.
    Haha! Only the most insecure person would give two shites about being made fun of by low-life, dishonorable scum.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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