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Thread: OC'ed for the first time the other night

  1. #1
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    OC'ed for the first time the other night

    It was fairly cowardly, just on an evening walk in Lake Stevens with my wife & Glock 22. Already dark out.

    No SWAT teams dropped from choppers, by the time we were done, I forgot I was carrying. Was fun to exercise liberty!

    Since we don't yet have CPLs, I need to stay 1000'+ away from any school property, right? But after we receive those, I'm good to walk near there as well?

    I've been reading OCDO for quite some time now, have wanted to OC for awhile, finally starting to feel comfortable enough in my understanding of the law to probably not make any huge blunders. Hopefully.

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    Regular Member cpgrad08's Avatar
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    Congrats and welcome to the club.
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    OC'ed for the first time the other night

    Congrats!!! As to your questions a Washington state permit would exempt you from the 1000' rule while in Washington. It would not exempt you from schools in other states, even those with reciprocity.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Congrats!!! As to your questions a Washington state permit would exempt you from the 1000' rule while in Washington. It would not exempt you from schools in other states, even those with reciprocity.
    That law is purely unconstitutional. You can't walk through some towns or cities without passing within that 1000' distance. If that law could be enforced then all the government would have to do is put up small schools all over an area effectively destroying everyone's right to self defense.

    Besides I believe it applies to private schools too and I find those on main roads all the time.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Re: OC'ed for the first time the other night

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    That law is purely unconstitutional. You can't walk through some towns or cities without passing within that 1000' distance. If that law could be enforced then all the government would have to do is put up small schools all over an area effectively destroying everyone's right to self defense.

    Besides I believe it applies to private schools too and I find those on main roads all the time.
    I don't disagree since I can't walk out of my neighborhood without running up against this law, but I'm going to follow it anyway.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    OC'ed for the first time the other night

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    That law is purely unconstitutional. You can't walk through some towns or cities without passing within that 1000' distance. If that law could be enforced then all the government would have to do is put up small schools all over an area effectively destroying everyone's right to self defense.

    Besides I believe it applies to private schools too and I find those on main roads all the time.
    I agree with you in spirit. However, I am simply stating the law as it is. I guess we all take our chances.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member skiingislife725's Avatar
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    Greetings from Lake Stevens! Hope to see you around town. I've yet to see a "unicorn" here in Lake Stevens.
    Last edited by skiingislife725; 08-29-2012 at 09:11 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    The only places in Lake Stevens I go to is Target and Quiznos.

    No problems...
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 08-29-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    That law is purely unconstitutional.
    Undoubtedly. It's no different from how cities often try to designate a First Amendment Zone during major events or protests, outside of which media or citizens with cameras are unwelcome to the point of (false) arrest.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Federal law, I haven't heard of anyone being prosecuted by Washington cops of any sort for it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    IMHO: even as unconstitutional as the 1000' rule is, if you look at McKenna's opinion from a couple years ago as to what is a school, and what is not...think traffic law. A school zone is a school zone only when classes are in session, As school is not a school unless there are students present and class is in session. Otherwise it is just another building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    IMHO: even as unconstitutional as the 1000' rule is, if you look at McKenna's opinion from a couple years ago as to what is a school, and what is not...think traffic law. A school zone is a school zone only when classes are in session, As school is not a school unless there are students present and class is in session. Otherwise it is just another building.
    Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

    I guess that you might find a definition under Washington law that would suggest that it's only a school when children are present, but I cannot walk out of my neighborhood and see whether there are children present for sure, so I for one will honor the rule of law and just get a CPL. Though I do think this law IS unconstitutional and should be repealed.

  13. #13
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewise1 View Post
    Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

    I guess that you might find a definition under Washington law that would suggest that it's only a school when children are present, but I cannot walk out of my neighborhood and see whether there are children present for sure, so I for one will honor the rule of law and just get a CPL. Though I do think this law IS unconstitutional and should be repealed.
    Is it a school? or is it a church? when the auditorium of a named school is rented for services by a religious organization?

    Is it a school? or is it a church? when the church facilities are used for school purposes?

    McKenna's obversation was: if there are organized school activities for school purposes going on, it is a school, if it is at a named school or not. Just because a building has a sign on front that says "Lake Stevens High School" (or any other named "school") does not mean there are carry restrictions. Conversely, just because it does not have the name of a organized "school", does not mean that the school restrictions are not present...if where it is is used "exclusively" for organized school purposes.

    It's summer vacations...(for a couple more days)...there are no "schools" that in session, so there are no "schools" for the purposes of the 1000' garbage. Same for weekends and evenings...

    Do you understand the difference? If you could name a building a "school", and automatically have the restrictions in place, how long do you think it would take Seattle to name everything they possibly could a "school"?

    You really need to read the AG's opinion.

    ADDED: if you reread the last line of the federal law that you quote, it states "(26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law."

    I am pointing you to the WA AG's opinion what WA STATE LAW means...OK?
    Last edited by hermannr; 08-30-2012 at 04:43 PM.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiingislife725 View Post
    Greetings from Lake Stevens! Hope to see you around town. I've yet to see a "unicorn" here in Lake Stevens.

    The only place I havnt carried in Lake Stevens that we have went (that I have been out of uniform) is the post office and a sister store for the company I work for. I cant get in the zone openly carrying. Schmucks/Oreally's havnt said anything. I dont get a discount there, but I dont have to unstrap to go in to get washer fluid or oil which I dont get a discount on anyway. Safeway, ACE, BurgerKing, Walgreens, Library, parks, All been ok. Course, We are Moving to Marysville tomorrow so I probably wont be seen in Lake Stevens anymore.
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