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Thread: Moving to CA, Need Help

  1. #1
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    Moving to CA, Need Help

    I will be moving to CA within the next year and need some help in regards to the laws.

    1) Assault Weapons Ban Waiver. Last time I asked about this for military I was told that there was litigation due to the AG basically trying to ban military from getting it (required a letter from the base commander stating that the guns would be for military use...which is against military regs). Has this been settled and how do I go about applying for it?
    2) Magazine size. I know that the limit is 10rnds, but would the waiver also affect mags larger than 10rds? Also would putting in a round limiter so that the mag could no longer hold more than 10 rounds make it legal?
    3) What else should I know about my guns/ammo prior to moving? The wiki on CA gun laws makes it look like I wouldn't really have anything else to worry about, but it is CA and as such I expect far more stupidity than simply needing an AWB waiver and dealing with 10rd mags.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Any weapon with "evil features" - if it is a personal weapon, needs to have a fixed magazine. In other words, if you have an AR or similar, you need to get 10 rd mags and install a "bullet-button." Plenty of info on youtube and other sites about this. If it is a military weapon for military use, that is beyond me. To my knowledge there is no way that CA will issue a waiver for an "assault weapon" not in compliance with CA law. Simply reconfigure your weapon to have a 10 rd fixed magazine and you should be good to go. Don't be surprised if the bullet button exception goes the way of the dinosaurs in the near future though - there is no limit to the silliness in Sacramento.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Cool Moving to KALIFORNIA...LOL Good Luck With than

    Sorry you will have to leave the US Constitution at the state line; the goverment of Kalifornia don't believe in it. Say hello tp Nancy Pelosi for us.

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    I will be moving to CA within the next year and need some help in regards to the laws.

    1) Assault Weapons Ban Waiver. Last time I asked about this for military I was told that there was litigation due to the AG basically trying to ban military from getting it (required a letter from the base commander stating that the guns would be for military use...which is against military regs). Has this been settled and how do I go about applying for it?
    2) Magazine size. I know that the limit is 10rnds, but would the waiver also affect mags larger than 10rds? Also would putting in a round limiter so that the mag could no longer hold more than 10 rounds make it legal?
    3) What else should I know about my guns/ammo prior to moving? The wiki on CA gun laws makes it look like I wouldn't really have anything else to worry about, but it is CA and as such I expect far more stupidity than simply needing an AWB waiver and dealing with 10rd mags.
    The absolute best forum to get all the answers to your questions (and more which you haven't asked yet) is CalGuns.net

    1) Military Assault Weapon Permits (MAWP) used to be very easy to get - basically simply fill out a form. But unfortunately they are now near impossible to get as they are illegitimately requiring paperwork from your duty station indicating its for military use (or some such drivel) On paper they are obtainable, but it appears that since the rule change they have become unobtainium.

    Please keep in mind that there are 2 classification of CA defined Assault Weapons (AWs). Rifles, Shotguns & Pistols - each of which could be deemed an assault weapons based on their scary features. When you go to CalGuns there are links at the top of the forum for flowcharts which you can use to check the classification of all of your firearms. Be sure to check each firearm you own before bringing it into CA. Additionally, its possible for some firearms to be deemed AWs simply by the manufacturer/model - regardless of whether or not they have evil features.

    2) Magazines. You may legally bring greater then 10 round magazines (GTRMs) into California IF you possessed them within CA prior to 1/1/2000. Also keep in mind that it is perfectly legal to bring magazine parts into CA. So, disassembled GTRMs into the state but you may never assemble them while in CA.

    GTRMs may be modified to only hold 10 rounds or less, but the modifications must be 'permanent' for it to meet the legal exemption. Although permanence is not defined in the penal code, its believed to be 'safe' if done with the use of rivets and/or epoxy. There is no case-law on the subject.

    If you have GTRMs which qualify for the importation exemptions (possessed in CA prior to 1/1/00) it is extremely important to note that you may not legally use them in a rifle with a 'non detachable magazine' (often called a 'fixed magazine') as this might trigger Assault Weapon status. The law on the matter seems to present a possible legal defense for this condition, but the defense would be so technical that it is incredibly unlikely to succeed.

    3) Armor Piercing Handgun ammunition is illegal here. I can't remember on Tracer ammo; I think its legal to possess but generally illegal to use. The biggest 'hidden' gotchas tend to be pistols with threaded barrels and 'named' assault weapons.

    Also keep in mind that CA requires registration of handguns imported into CA. The cost is $19 dollars (each handgun). There *might* be a military exemption to this; I'm not sure. Rifles/shotguns don't need to be registered. If you do I think the cost is $19 for an unlimited number. Registration on importation might be required on 1/1/2014.

    CA has a list known as the 'Roster of not unsafe handguns' This is a list of handguns which are purchasable from an FFL in CA. However, it is perfectly legal to own/import/use or resale them person to person (at an FFL) So, if you are interested in purchasing something like a Ruger LCP, do so before you get to CA as they are much harder to find here. Even if you do find one, there is usually a price premium.

    Licenses to Carry Concealed; There issued by the Chief LEO of a PD or the Sheriff of any County. You must live within their jurisdiction for them to issue. CA is a 'may issue' state for carry licenses, so you might want to take a serious look at where you intend to live if this is important to you. "California is divided into 58 counties and contains 482 municipalities" (Wikipedia) Some cities don't have PDs, so that results in somewhere around 300 different opinions on whether or not to issue a license. Information on issuance is readily available at CalGuns.net (see above)

    Good luck with your move and thank you for your service!

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I dont think this is true. If the magazine ever left California then I dont believe you can legally bring it back in. I could be wrong though.
    http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisga...ction=retrieve

    32420. Section 32310 does not apply to the importation of a
    large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the
    large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000,
    lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with
    the same large-capacity magazine.

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    Regular Member MainelyGlock's Avatar
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    May I ask why you're moving to Cali? Getting stationed there? Be prepared to only be allowed a slingshot for personal defense.
    Once more into the fray.
    Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Anyone who is thinking of moving to California needs professional help.
    Who said I was thinking about it? When one is handed orders with a report date there typically isn't a lot of thinking involved outside of "how do I get my family there" and in the case of CA, "what do I have to do to be legal to move there?"

    Quote Originally Posted by MainelyGlock View Post
    May I ask why you're moving to Cali? Getting stationed there? Be prepared to only be allowed a slingshot for personal defense.
    Going to be stationed at Beale AFB. It's NorCal so I hear it should be easier to get a CCP, but there's still all the other issues.

    Currently the only gun that I have that would need the AWBW is my MSAR AUG, but I do plan on getting a KelTec RFB once I get back and it would also need a waiver.

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Anyone who is thinking of moving to California needs professional help.
    I understand the frustration with the anti-gun legislature in California but they are and will continue to be a part of America and we need to help and support our brothers and sisters in California to the best of our ability ... not chastise them. If more pro-gun people lived there, it could make all the difference in the world.


    John

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I understand the frustration with the anti-gun legislature in California but they are and will continue to be a part of America and we need to help and support our brothers and sisters in California to the best of our ability ... not chastise them. If more pro-gun people lived there, it could make all the difference in the world.


    John
    That is suggesting an awful lot for people to give up their rights to help CA maybe get theirs. Besides all of CA other problems, unless for a VERY high paid job I can't see the rationality of it. I certainly believe in giving CA as much support as possible, just not willing to become a martyr.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    Going to be stationed at Beale AFB. It's NorCal so I hear it should be easier to get a CCP, but there's still all the other issues.

    Currently the only gun that I have that would need the AWBW is my MSAR AUG, but I do plan on getting a KelTec RFB once I get back and it would also need a waiver.
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but forget about getting the waiver. It is simply impossible to get. In order for any classified assault weapon to be legal you need to have a 10 round fixed magazine or any number of other things -- see the chart below. There are exceptions to the high cap mag law - and how they can determine that a high cap mag is illegal is nearly impossible to enforce, but as LAC's we have to abide by the law. (I considered moving to CA for a job so that is why I know all of this). Forget the waiver - you may just as well be in the twilight zone, whatever your perceptions about 2A rights elsewhere in the country -- they go out the window when you cross the CA state line.

    http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

    Sorry you were ordered to go -- best of luck and thank you for your service.

  11. #11
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Thanks for the info. I was wrong.

    I am curious though, how would you or the state prove that you posessed the magazine in California prior to that date ?

    For instance, if you were caught at the border coming into CA with a mag, how would you prove anything ? (other than a receipt)
    The burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove that you broke the law. Barring self incrimination or evidence to the contrary (like a receipt that show you just purchased it out of state) Its pretty much impossible to prove that someone 'imported a large capacity ammunition feeding device'

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I understand the frustration with the anti-gun legislature in California but they are and will continue to be a part of America and we need to help and support our brothers and sisters in California to the best of our ability ... not chastise them. If more pro-gun people lived there, it could make all the difference in the world.


    John
    The percentage of pro gun people who live there is probably pretty close to the same as everywhere else. They are in fact everywhere.

    There are however a lot of problems. Blue collar people, typically the most representative of civilian gun users, (a fact which holds steady in the PRK) are looked down upon by much of the population. Blue collar people demanding anything, to even include unionized workers striking, get chastised and retaliated against in the PRK by both the people and the government.

    Then you have to consider the abusive and in your face jack booted thuggery that Ronald Reagen set in motion. Facing the abusive police backed by equally abusive laws, it becomes hard to wish to be an activist, especially when the first thing your state does is ban the practice. Throw in the daily struggle to succeed in the urban areas of that dump of a state, especially if you're a blue collar worker who isn't selling weed on the side, and it becomes even less of any form of priority.

    The aforementioned website calguns will give you plenty of information, but it definitely won't help bring about any solutions. Their cop coddling is probably as big of a problem for PRK gun rights as Jerry Brown himself.
    Last edited by Michigander; 09-03-2012 at 01:50 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The percentage of pro gun people who live there is probably pretty close to the same as everywhere else. They are in fact everywhere.

    There are however a lot of problems. Blue collar people, typically the most representative of civilian gun users, (a fact which holds steady in the PRK) are looked down upon by much of the population. Blue collar people demanding anything, to even include unionized workers striking, get chastised and retaliated against in the PRK by both the people and the government.

    Then you have to consider the abusive and in your face jack booted thuggery that Ronald Reagen set in motion. Facing the abusive police backed by equally abusive laws, it becomes hard to wish to be an activist, especially when the first thing your state does is ban the practice. Throw in the daily struggle to succeed in the urban areas of that dump of a state, especially if you're a blue collar worker who isn't selling weed on the side, and it becomes even less of any form of priority.

    The aforementioned website calguns will give you plenty of information, but it definitely won't help bring about any solutions. Their cop coddling is probably as big of a problem for PRK gun rights as Jerry Brown himself. (underline and bold added by markm)
    Hello Michingander,

    Your conclusion is very correct. Calguns is our solution while at the same time it is our enemy; many there support left wing politicians and public sector unions (even FDR was against public sector unions). Many there whole-heartadly support our out-of-control police bureacrocy and their public sector unions. Love/hate is a perfect way to describe my feelings. Many CalGunners voted for anti-2A Jerry Brown.

    Write one critical thing about police and their unions on CalGuns, and you will be reprimanded and/or banned from their site. I know, it has happened to me because I dared to be critical of police actions. I was deemed to be "police bashing."

    This is political war. We will not win by coddling, supporting, and lying about left wing and right wing anti civil libertarians. All democrats and some republicans are the problem.

    markm

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    That is suggesting an awful lot for people to give up their rights to help CA maybe get theirs. Besides all of CA other problems, unless for a VERY high paid job I can't see the rationality of it. I certainly believe in giving CA as much support as possible, just not willing to become a martyr.
    WalkingWolf,

    My sentiments exactly!

    I plan on being a refugee of Kalifornia in a few years. Demographics (illegal immigrants and thier votes) have doomed Kalifornia.

    John, I am not your martyr.

    thanks,

    markm

  15. #15
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    snip
    The thing I found most fascinating, after going shooting at a number of bay area ranges, is just how badly out of whack the attitude is about the difference between cops and non cops.

    The police bring in bad guy targets, set them up close, and blow them away with a rapid fire hail of bullets. The same range that supports and condones that will require non police to shoot at bullseye targets at a pace so slow as to be damn near worthless. At one PRK range I got yelled at by a range officer for standing too far back while holding a pistol in the SUL position, utterly safely, while having a conversation with another person about an issue with their gun. (I left at that point.) It's as though even the shooters in the PRK want everyone to believe that unless you have the all powerful wisdom of a cop, that guns are outside of your control and must be handled with beyond paranoid caution.

    The very idea that anyone would use a gun in self defense, other than the all powerful cops, seems to be something that PRK subjects in urban areas don't want anything to do with, at least not that they'll admit in public. I'm among those that believe the best bet for someone who wants to carry is leaving, because your only other solid option, unless you're lucky enough to live in a shall issue county, is violating the law.
    Last edited by Michigander; 09-20-2012 at 07:59 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Lawful Aim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjones View Post
    The burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove that you broke the law. Barring self incrimination or evidence to the contrary (like a receipt that show you just purchased it out of state) Its pretty much impossible to prove that someone 'imported a large capacity ammunition feeding device'
    In addition the prosecutor can be challenged to produce a verified complaint certified under oath before a duly elected judge. For such charges related to firearms and any other matter in which there is no actual injured party, they can't and NEVER do.

    On top of that, California Title 11 requires ANYONE who brings forth a suit under "THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA" to first obtain permission from the State Attorney General. Prosecutors are not doing this either.

    Can you say, "CASE DISMISSED"?
    The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein
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