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Thread: Clinton County RI-60

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Clinton County RI-60

    I turned in a RI-60 for a Mossberg that I put a pistol grip on.(total length is 28.5) Got a call from the office girl with some questions. She wondered why I was the seller and the buyer? After I told her what I did she had me hold while she asked somebody some questions. When she got back on the phone she informed me I had committed a federal felony for changing a long gun into a pistol. I told her I that was not the case in this instance. She transfered me to a Det. who basiclly repeated the same thing to me. So I called MSP who agreed with me that under federal law it was still a long gun but MI law states it needs to be registered.

    I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Write this experience up in a nice email and send it off to your State Senator. They need to know that the registration system in MI is so confusing and convoluted that even the police charged with administering the system cannot understand the laws. It's just one more reason registration needs to go away.

    Bronson
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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?
    If by 'problem' you mean idiots who don't know what they're doing, the laws, or how to properly enforce them [or not enforce them], then yes. This specific issue, no.

    Frankly I'm surprised your PD's records bureau even read it. I figured they'd just throw it in a folder, or use it as a coaster, or toilet paper, or something the way this system is run.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    I turned in a RI-60 for a Mossberg that I put a pistol grip on.(total length is 28.5) Got a call from the office girl with some questions. She wondered why I was the seller and the buyer? After I told her what I did she had me hold while she asked somebody some questions. When she got back on the phone she informed me I had committed a federal felony for changing a long gun into a pistol. I told her I that was not the case in this instance. She transfered me to a Det. who basiclly repeated the same thing to me. So I called MSP who agreed with me that under federal law it was still a long gun but MI law states it needs to be registered.

    I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?
    St. Johns PD?
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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    St. Johns PD?
    Clinton County Sheriff Dept. With everything else I have ever dealt with them on they seem to be the example other countys should strive to be, but even when I called them back with the MSP troopers name and number the lady on the phone said " I dont know what he's gonna tell me federal law supercides state law".

    I was gonna call her back today and make sure she talked with the trooper. Last thing I want is Clinton County deputy knocking on the door to seize my "illegal" firearm.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    Clinton County Sheriff Dept. With everything else I have ever dealt with them on they seem to be the example other countys should strive to be, but even when I called them back with the MSP troopers name and number the lady on the phone said " I dont know what he's gonna tell me federal law supercides state law".

    I was gonna call her back today and make sure she talked with the trooper. Last thing I want is Clinton County deputy knocking on the door to seize my "illegal" firearm.
    I know Undersheriff Jack Phillips pretty well. He should know the law on this. Try and talk with him.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    I turned in a RI-60 for a Mossberg that I put a pistol grip on.(total length is 28.5) Got a call from the office girl with some questions. She wondered why I was the seller and the buyer? After I told her what I did she had me hold while she asked somebody some questions. When she got back on the phone she informed me I had committed a federal felony for changing a long gun into a pistol. I told her I that was not the case in this instance. She transfered me to a Det. who basiclly repeated the same thing to me. So I called MSP who agreed with me that under federal law it was still a long gun but MI law states it needs to be registered.

    I was wondering if anybody else has ran into this type of problem?
    Methinks what they're trying to say is that by removing the buttstock from the Mossy 500, for example with a 18.5 inch barrel, possibly the OAL becomes less than 26 inches in OAL until you attach the pistol grip which brings the OAL to 28.5 inches as you indicated? Hence, a SBS, a short-barrel shotgun.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Methinks what they're trying to say is that by removing the buttstock from the Mossy 500, for example with a 18.5 inch barrel, possibly the OAL becomes less than 26 inches in OAL until you attach the pistol grip which brings the OAL to 28.5 inches as you indicated? Hence, a SBS, a short-barrel shotgun.
    No the federal thing was that a long gun can not become a pistol, but a pistol can become a long gun.

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    Regular Member Xanaseyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Methinks what they're trying to say is that by removing the buttstock from the Mossy 500, for example with a 18.5 inch barrel, possibly the OAL becomes less than 26 inches in OAL until you attach the pistol grip which brings the OAL to 28.5 inches as you indicated? Hence, a SBS, a short-barrel shotgun.
    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    No the federal thing was that a long gun can not become a pistol, but a pistol can become a long gun.
    Except that's not even relevant in this case:
    http://nyosuht.com/images/2012-08-30/PICT0883.JPG
    http://nyosuht.com/images/2012-08-30/PICT0886.JPG

    I'd sooner believe that they don't actually realise that the definition in MCL 28.421 doesn't apply to federal law.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanaseyr View Post
    Except that's not even relevant in this case:
    I told them that and they didnt believe me.
    Last edited by WilDChilD; 08-30-2012 at 04:35 PM.

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    I suggest you go down there and get this resolved. They have to register this gun as a pistol. This is the law as it stands today. Tell them that you are not leaving until this matter is resolved. Record your conversation. Try to have specific facts audio recorded during your interaction, such as the fact that RI-60 was mailed. Try to make them to admit that Ri-60 was received by the county. Read aloud serial number, gun make, etc. Let them argue their nonsense on tape. Then, after the facts are on record, announce that this interaction was recorded to protect yourself in case I am charged with failure to register pistol. Tell them that you done what is required by law and that you will be back in one week to get a copy of your gun registration. I think this will make them move.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Frankly I'm surprised your PD's records bureau even read it. I figured they'd just throw it in a folder, or use it as a coaster, or toilet paper, or something the way this system is run.
    This. I have seen, thanks to one ****** bag felon excuse for a cop violating my rights and that of friend's, a case of a pistol supposedly registered on two separate occasions by two different departments which was not even on LEIN. This is a staggeringly more common problem than most know, but the thing is that with how tight lipped Michigan cops are about their little intrusive system to keep tabs on us, most will never see this.

    Remember that if you are concerned about grandfathering a MiDAP, and aren't concerned about/don't believe that if registration goes so to will grandfathered MiDAPs, that it will be a crap shoot if your gun gets registered or not. I'd suggest keeping several copies of the RI060, because you definitely shouldn't be counting on the state to keep track of it.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    I talked to the office girl yesterday to see if she had contacted msp. She told me " the gun will be registered" in a semi crappy tone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    I talked to the office girl yesterday to see if she had contacted msp. She told me " the gun will be registered" in a semi crappy tone.

    I would follow up on that with a complaint about poor customer service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    I talked to the office girl yesterday to see if she had contacted msp. She told me " the gun will be registered" in a semi crappy tone.
    I am glad they agreed to do the right thing. Give it a week and go request a copy of registration record. They have to provide it to you and can charge $1.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    I am glad they agreed to do the right thing. Give it a week and go request a copy of registration record. They have to provide it to you and can charge $1.
    This!!
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    I am glad they agreed to do the right thing. Give it a week and go request a copy of registration record. They have to provide it to you and can charge $1.
    That's what I was going to do. Is that something they can do right on the spot or will I have to come back and pick it up? Now I hope there is a way for it to remain a pistol if they do away with registration.
    Last edited by WilDChilD; 09-03-2012 at 08:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDChilD View Post
    That's what I was going to do. Is that something they can do right on the spot or will I have to come back and pick it up? Now I hope there is a way for it to remain a pistol if they do away with registration.
    You should be able to get it on the spot. It is just a simple print out from the pistol registration database.

  19. #19
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    You should be able to get it on the spot. It is just a simple print out from the pistol registration database.
    Walker PD just took some info from my Driver License and printed it off for me; took about 3 minutes in all.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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