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Self Defense Shooting in Taylor

Michigun

Michigun

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May 12, 2010
Messages
139
Location
Michigan
A bicyclist disregards a red light and crosses across the road riding into the side of pickup truck (denting it heavily). He then gets up, walks around the truck and begins assaulting the driver through the drivers window and is shot by the driver 1 time in the chest. The bicyclist later died in surgery. The driver, a former Marine with no criminal history is now sitting in jail awaiting charges.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...gery/-/1719418/16418434/-/gped3u/-/index.html

http://thenewsherald.com/articles/2012/08/30/news/doc503f852c34b93399352081.txt

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region...river-and-bicycle-rider-takes-a-shocking-turn

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region...bicyclist-after-road-rage-incident-speaks-out
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

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Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
It's Taylor. Do not expect anything logical from them. If the cyclist had a gun or knife the truck driver may have gotten some slack from them. But since bicycle guy did not have weapons (fists have never killed anyone right?) . They will throw every charge they can at him to see what sticks. Now remember back to last summer, when a older man came home, got out of his car and saw a dog he thought was aggresive (he most likely was right in being scared of it). He then goes into his house, gets a 40 cal Glock and fires multiple rounds into & at the dog. Guess what? He had no charges brought even though many neighbors stated what he did put more people in danger than the dog did and that he should have just called animal control.

What's my point? Logically one would think a attack - sudden and violent would warrant the use of deadly force to defend ones life. A situation where one not only has the time to leave, then recoup a pistol inside ones home, then return and fire multiple rounds near a public street for a "possible threat" would warrant at minimum an investgation right? Not so in Taylor. The main difference is one knew members of the police force and the other person did not. Not saying either sould have been charged, but in my honest opinion the dog shooter was more in violation of the law than the driver of the pickup truck.:rolleyes:

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 
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TheQ

TheQ

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Lansing, Michigan
In this case, it's going to be argued (maybe rightly so, I don't know the facts) that the man in tge truck could have just as easily drove away -- thus deadly force wasn't "necessary".
 
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Venator

Venator

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Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Glock9mmOldStyle said:
It's Taylor. Do not expect anything logical from them. If the cyclist had a gun or knife the truck driver may have gotten some slack from them. But since bicycle guy did not have weapons (fists have never killed anyone right?) . They will throw every charge they can at him to see what sticks. Now remember back to last summer, when a older man came home, got out of his car and saw a dog he thought was aggresive (he most likely was right in being scared of it). He then goes into his house, gets a 40 cal Glock and fires multiple rounds into & at the dog. Guess what? He had no charges brought even though many neighbors stated what he did put more people in danger than the dog did and that he should have just called animal control.

What's my point? Logically one would think a attack - sudden and violent would warrant the use of deadly force to defend ones life. A situation where one not only has the time to leave, then recoup a pistol inside ones home, then return and fire multiple rounds near a public street for a "possible threat" would warrant at minimum an investgation right? Not so in Taylor. The main difference is one knew members of the police force and the other person did not. Not saying either sould have been charged, but in my honest opinion the dog shooter was more in violation of the law than the driver of the pickup truck.:rolleyes:

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
Click to expand...

The two articles I read said may be charged. This is SOP. The prosecutor will review and decide to charge or not.
 
TheQ

TheQ

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Lansing, Michigan
The guy in the truck never got out of the truck. He could have drove away also.

The law reads the deadly force must be "necessary". This angle has been discussed on MGO many times.


The prosecution may argue the truck driver could have rolled up his window and/or hit the gas.
 
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Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

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Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
TheQ said:
In this case, it's going to be argued (maybe rightly so, I don't know the facts) that the man in tge truck could have just as easily drove away -- thus deadly force wasn't "nessicary".
Click to expand...

To do so he would have left the scene of a accident and by that time may have had to run the light? This sounds like it was an almost instant attack on the driver. If you have a full grown man hanging in your window it won't just roll up either. Ever hear of safety roll down feature most modern cars have so kids cannot roll the window up on their heads! ;) From the limited info it sounds like he should not be charged. Now if Taylor ask for state charges, who knows, but I would not be shocked if they do. This guy was in a bad spot no matter what he did, drive away face charges and possible death, just take beating - again face death, shoot - live and risk going to jail. Not cool any way you look at it. :(

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 
TheQ

TheQ

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Shooting a man is a crime (SD aside). I think they'd let you go off fleeing the scene if you were getting a beat down.

There's lots of facts yet to be known. I withhold judgement one way or another.

Legally speaking this case may well hinge on if the shooting was "necessary" -- that is, if there was no other option that would have equally assured the survival of the defender.

Again, this type of scenario has been discussed on MGO numerous times. Recently a man got charged and convicted of assault with a deadly weapon for pulling a gun on a guy who was about to deliver him a beat down. It was the first trial case Shyster lost.
 
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TheQ

TheQ

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Update: according to a post on MGO this man is being represented by Jim Makowski.

I'm glad to hear he has a good lawyer.
 
cmdr_iceman71

cmdr_iceman71

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Mar 16, 2010
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409
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Detroit, Michigan, USA
This scenario again proves why it is important to always have your voice recorder running at all times when armed whether OC or CC. It wouldve been good for the shooter to be able to play the recording so the prosecutor can hear the time elapse from the striking of the truck with the bicycle, the enraged voice of the cyclist, and the number of punches to the face. Secondly, I wouldnt have tried to drive off with a man hanging off my truck trying to punch me in the face. What if he falls off, rolls under my truck and I accidentally run him over and he dies from his injuries? In confidence my lawayer would probably be telling me "From a legal standing you wouldve been better off shooting him."
 
Glock9mmOldStyle

Glock9mmOldStyle

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Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
TheQ said:
Shooting a man is a crime (SD aside). I think they'd let you go off fleeing the scene if you were getting a beat down.

There's lots of facts yet to be known. I withhold judgement one way or another.

Legally speaking this case may well hinge on if the shooting was "nessiccary" -- that is, if there was no other option that would have equally assured the survival of the defender.

Again, this type of scenario has been discussed on MGO numerous times. Recently a man got charged and convicted of assault with a deadly weapon for pulling a gun on a guy who was about to deliver him a beat down. It was the first trial case Shyster lost.
Click to expand...

Phil - l'm guessing you have never been a real fight in your life. If I am wrong - sorry in advance. A person can deliver a flurry of blows very, very fast; which I bet was the case here. It was probably impossible to see anything clearly. To drive blindly away into oncoming traffic, across a crosswalk would be reckless at best.

Point shooting this thug was most likely the only real option the driver had other than to just let the thug beat him to death... :rolleyes:

We can armchair general this to death, as I am sure the keyboard Kommando's over on MGO are doing. No one knows how they will react in a life or death situation until they are in one. In my honest opinion this guy made the best choice of the crappy choices he had. :eek:

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both! :eek:
 
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MainelyGlock

MainelyGlock

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Portland, ME
Glock9mmOldStyle said:
Hopefully there is some video from a traffic camera if the driver is lucky?
Click to expand...

Be lucky they are functional! When I got stabbed, my attacker ran towards a busy intersection with a traffic cam above each set of lights. When I asked the detective about retrieving the footage to make an I.D., he told me that the majority of traffics cameras in the greater Portland area are duds. Go figure :rolleyes:
 
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