Yeah, but they're harder to bullseye. Let's outlaw them instead.
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Bull rushed by two Pitt-Bulls
- Thread starter SpringsColt
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Yeah, but they're harder to bullseye. Let's outlaw them instead.
mobiushky
Regular Member
Read the first line under procedure: "We collected data from the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)..." Credibility now equals zero. Sorry, HSUS=PETA. Period. They are one and the same. So right there you know the data is not exactly upstanding or factual.
Second these are recorded fatalities that are blamed on dog bites. Not attacks. Obviously direct related fatalities are going to be attributed to larger dogs as it'd be tough to directly link a chihuahua to a fatality.
It is a common misconception that pitbulls "attack more than any breed." But that's simply not true and impossible to prove. Fact is, there are more than 900,000 dog attacks every year that require medical attention. There were something like 33 fatalities linked to pitbulls last year. So where are the 899,967 other attacks in there? Fact is, people have been perpetuating myths about dogs for years and no one seems to want to learn the truth. Most dog bite attacks are by smaller dogs and are hardly worth rising to the "fatality" level. In fact, research is starting to show that there is no density of attack by any breed. The reason you hear about larger breeds is due to the amount of damage they can inflict.
I owned a rottweiler. I have several friends who have them. I guarantee you more is attributable to the owner than the breed. Our dog trainer rescues boxers and uses them as hospital care dogs.
PikesPeakMtnMan
Regular Member
When I was a package deliveryman I encountered dogs daily. I was always on my guard with a strange dog, and the owner's reassurances never were reassuring. They would always say "he doesn't bite" to which I would reply, "does he have teeth?" when they tell me yes then I'd say "then he can bite". The one that always got me was an owner that told me to "relax, because he only gets aggressive around strangers"...and just what am I to the dog, he doesn't recognize the uniform as making someone who isn't trespassing....
SpringsColt
Regular Member
I hate to pour gas on the flames, but I have personally worked in busiest ER in the State for the last ten years, and in MY PERSONAL experience seeing patients affected by dog bites, I'd say at least 75% were pitbulls and Rottweilers. People can find statistics to support whatever argument they choose, but this is what I've personally seen over a decade of work. I know that there are good dogs in these breeds, but I don't think that I would ever own one. There is a reason you never hear about the horrible Golden Retriever attack; it's because they virtually never happen. There's also a reason that most apartment complexes and renters ask if you have one of these types of breeds. Insurance companies do their research, and charge accordingly to an apartment complex or renter that would allow their tenants these dogs...
It's true that the size of the dog has a lot to due with injury to the victim, and there's good reason to be cautious of German Shepards, and pretty much any unknown dog in general. As I said, I am glad that the incident didn't turn out any other way, I wouldn't have wanted to kill his dog, but I think that if the situation was any different, I would have ended up drawing and pulling the trigger. Not taking any chances with my little girl...
Cheers
It's true that the size of the dog has a lot to due with injury to the victim, and there's good reason to be cautious of German Shepards, and pretty much any unknown dog in general. As I said, I am glad that the incident didn't turn out any other way, I wouldn't have wanted to kill his dog, but I think that if the situation was any different, I would have ended up drawing and pulling the trigger. Not taking any chances with my little girl...
Cheers
Whether this or that type of dog "attacks" any one or not- the thing that is almost ALWAYS left out of the equation is what the "victim" did to get themselves bit. Most-not all-but most dogs are not likely to attack without any kind of warning 1st.
Also, most dogs (and it is not even remotely specific to a particular breed vs another) are'nt any more likely to attack anyone than a human is, without some provokation or threat. The end.
Folks are always quick to "omg he/she/I was just attacked'-yet you never hear any of these folks,or their next of kin, ever admit that they did this or that, or totally ignored all the growling and barking that proceeded the "attack" which got themselves bitten in the 1st place.Nooo that would be kind of...honest? wouldnt it?
Stop, already, with the Pitbull mythology. It's nonsense.Unless bred and trained to be otherwise-and THAT is entirely on the owner- they are no more likely to harm you than a kitten.
Are they capable of doing so? Sure. But there's a wide gap between capable, and inclined to do so.
My Pit- i'd trust with any child, un-attended, anytime. She's so gentle with children-esp, my nephew, since the time of his birth.
In fact, my nephew is the ONLY person who can walk her on a leash. WIth us, she drags and pulls and yanks like a wild beast- hand the leash to this kid, and she walks right along side, entirely under control-go figure.
Now, would she likely fight to the death to PROTECT that child from someone. You better believe it. But beyond that? Wont even bark at you,normally.
SpringsColt
Regular Member
I wasn't attempting to promote any pitbull "mythology" here, I was just stating what I had seen with my own eyes. I believe I also stated that there were good dogs in all breeds, didn't I? If you are implying that I was doing something to provoke two unleashed dogs to burst through the fence in attack mode, other than walking down the street with my daughter and my leashed animal, then you are jumping to conclusions about my behavior. If you think that the majority of attacks on humans are provoked by humans, then I believe you are misinformed. Perhaps there is a good portion of attacks that are provoked by humans, not really knowing how to be around dogs, sticking their faces too close (as was seen on the news recently, chick got her face bitten for that one), but to assume that the majority of attacks are provoked by the victim is misleading from the facts.
I've been a "dog guy" my whole life, and have met great pitbulls, dogs I would allow my daughter around. All I was saying was that I wouldn't own one, and that IN MY PERSONAL experience working over a decade in Emergency Medicine, the numbers I'VE SEEN don't support your argument that they're not pre-disposed to turning from the "sweet dog" into an attacking dog. Not brash enough to say "end of story" because I am an open minded person, who is willing to see both sides; just stating what I have seen over the years....
Cheers.
I've been a "dog guy" my whole life, and have met great pitbulls, dogs I would allow my daughter around. All I was saying was that I wouldn't own one, and that IN MY PERSONAL experience working over a decade in Emergency Medicine, the numbers I'VE SEEN don't support your argument that they're not pre-disposed to turning from the "sweet dog" into an attacking dog. Not brash enough to say "end of story" because I am an open minded person, who is willing to see both sides; just stating what I have seen over the years....
Cheers.
They are a popular breed. So is it not possible you are interpreting #s of incidents of a given breed, out of proportion to the others? Meaning, if there are 500 pitbulls in a given town, etc. vs. 11 poodles, then yes, you are going to see "more" bites/attacks,etc. by Pits, than by Poodles, no?
That, alone, is not going to be any more indicative of a propensity for Pits to be "more aggressive" than any others, any more than by saying a town that is populated primarily by, say, blacks (or your choice of race/ethnicity) being more likely than others to be "aggressive" or violent. (which,if we stereotype about given segments of Human society-folks are quick to shout "RACIST!")
Again, it's not the breed. It's the owners who raise, and treat the breeds. I know some nasty little chihuahuas, I'd certainly prefer not to own one of those,myself-even if less capable of damage than a Pit.Doesnt mean Chi's are going to be more likely to gnaw my ankles, though.
Also, why assume two "charging" pitbulls are on the attack? I know most dogs see other dogs in passing, and nearly all types get excited and want to jump/break out the fence/gate/etc. to go see the other dogs. Mine certainly do. Pit as well as Lab.
Even if they got out, they wouldnt be running over to "attack" the other dog, or any humans with them- they'd be trying to play, and sniff some back-sides, at most.
Try not to jump to conclusions, any more than you should in any other situation.
Another way to look @ this:
Having both worked in E/R's /Trauma Centers-we've both seen more than enough to folks brought in for vehicle collisions/accidents,no? Sometimes traumatic injuries, sometimes with fatalities.
Did we/do we ever consider how many of these involved Chevy's vs. Ford's vs. Honda's etc? No, of course not.
But which of the above are the more common-/most-frequented vehicles? Is that any indicator of the VEHICLES being more likely to kill/maim? No, one can usually only blame the drivers of one vehicle or other.
Having both worked in E/R's /Trauma Centers-we've both seen more than enough to folks brought in for vehicle collisions/accidents,no? Sometimes traumatic injuries, sometimes with fatalities.
Did we/do we ever consider how many of these involved Chevy's vs. Ford's vs. Honda's etc? No, of course not.
But which of the above are the more common-/most-frequented vehicles? Is that any indicator of the VEHICLES being more likely to kill/maim? No, one can usually only blame the drivers of one vehicle or other.
Yaki
Regular Member
Humane Society is the equivilent of the brady clowns.
SpringsColt
Regular Member
You know, that's a really good point. I never really thought about it that way. I suppose that the fact that most times it's children with the crazy injuries (or maybe those are just the ones we remember) that make them stick out in our heads. Either way, I guess you could make the correlation between cars and motorcycles, which have a bad reputation in the ER business...that might be a bit more accurate as to the inherent dangers behind the breed. Maybe I am wrong, but were they not bred for fighting in pits? I think you can do a good job with certain animals, but they are still animals. Same reason I won't own a Wolf.
Probably agree to disagree on the major points of this, I have no problems with people owning pit bulls, I just wont, and I'm ready to put holes in one of it comes to me and my daughters safety. End of story there, for sure.
Cheers guys,I love this conversation. Well tempered debate is missing in today's discussions....
You know, that's a really good point. I never really thought about it that way. I suppose that the fact that most times it's children with the crazy injuries (or maybe those are just the ones we remember) that make them stick out in our heads. Either way, I guess you could make the correlation between cars and motorcycles, which have a bad reputation in the ER business...that might be a bit more accurate as to the inherent dangers behind the breed. Maybe I am wrong, but were they not bred for fighting in pits? I think you can do a good job with certain animals, but they are still animals. Same reason I won't own a Wolf.
Probably agree to disagree on the major points of this, I have no problems with people owning pit bulls, I just wont, and I'm ready to put holes in one of it comes to me and my daughters safety. End of story there, for sure.
Cheers guys,I love this conversation. Well tempered debate is missing in today's discussions....
Agreed.
Pits werent originally bred for fighting. Jackassses, somewhere along the way, decided to breed, train and use them for those purposes for thier own reasons/economic gains. The animal itself isnt any more "born and bred" with the instinct to be aggressive or to fight, than any other. As with humans, it is a taught behavior.
Wolfstanus
Regular Member
"American Pit Bull Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers. These three breeds along with the English Bulldog, the Boston Terrier and several other breeds have all evolved from a fighting dog bred in Europe in the early 1800”s, known as the Bull and Terrier"
almost everyone whose dog acts aggressively says "He's a sweet dog". It doesn't matter the breed, or the owner for that matter. Most people just don't understand dogs.
Pit Bulls are also disproportionately misidentified, or I should say, more dogs are misidentified as pit bulls than any other dog when there is a dog attack. Most people have no idea what a pit bull looks like.
And any dog that is capable of tearing your head off is dangerous and is never to be fully trusted. Pit bulls just happen to be in that group.
they are called pit bulls because they fight other dogs in pits, they have been bred to not be human aggressive. Doesn't mean it won't attack a human, but they are bred to not do that. As a breed they are not likely to attack people, but they are likely to attack other animals, especially other dogs. Even pit bull owners will tell you that these dogs will fight each other at the drop of a hat, sometimes to the death.
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