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Thread: Walk in downtown Cincy

  1. #1
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    Walk in downtown Cincy

    Did a walk in down town Cincy.
    Had a late lunch on the Square then when to the Serpentine Wall park.
    One park employee asked if I had a ccw I told him I did not need one that Ohio was a open carry state.
    He asked if I was sure I said yes and walked away.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/at...7&d=1346448785

    This was posted on the square sorry don't know how to enlarge it.
    If you click on it you should be able to do it yourself.
    4th line reads no weapons or firearms
    I don't think any police saw me and no one yelled he has a gun and ran off
    May go up for the fireworks but they are calling for rain Sunday.

    Mike

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    Those signs in some of the places like Fountain Square are cheesily worded and in my opinion deliberately misleading. Unless one knows what they are not prohibited from doing under the ORC the verbiage strongly suggests that carrying a firearm might well be illegal. Not true of course but for folks not up to speed on the actual laws--like say out-of-state visitors among others--they are being conned into needlessly disarming themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps1mhd View Post
    Did a walk in down town Cincy.
    Had a late lunch on the Square then when to the Serpentine Wall park.
    One park employee asked if I had a ccw I told him I did not need one that Ohio was a open carry state.
    He asked if I was sure I said yes and walked away...
    Thanks for talking your walk!

    One suggestion - I would have engaged the individual in conversation, though - as a further educational move.

    And yep, those signs have been there forever.
    Last edited by BB62; 09-01-2012 at 01:24 PM.

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    From: "Carden, Willie" <Willie.Carden@cincinnati-oh.gov>
    To: Jeff Slack <jslack7851@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2012 7:25 PM
    Subject: Re: Ohio Law

    We caught the error and the signs have been removed. Thank you for your note.

    Sent from my iPad


    Willie Carden is Director of Cinci. parks. Seems we / I should call him 'Slick Willie', he must of missed one...He told me Washington Park signs were removed.

    BB62, Tell him Hi, for me: Willie.Carden@cincinnati-oh.gov
    Last edited by JSlack7851; 09-02-2012 at 12:57 AM.

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    Hey guys Im new to the site here. Dont have my CCW yet but will on the 3rd. So when you walked downtown the sign wasn't updated to accommodate the new laws to carry either open or concealed? When the guy said they removed the signs it means now we can open carry?

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual101 View Post
    Hey guys Im new to the site here. Dont have my CCW yet but will on the 3rd. So when you walked downtown the sign wasn't updated to accommodate the new laws to carry either open or concealed? When the guy said they removed the signs it means now we can open carry?
    Not sure what you mean the signs were not updated. Under Ohio The signs can't be posted at all. Since the passage of ORC 9.68 no city, township of village can regulate the carrying of firearms, open or concealed, except for a few exceptions.

    What will you have on the 3rd? Taking the class or what. And the 3rd. of what month. Please explain.

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    Walk in downtown Cincy

    Actually, I don't think the sign violates the law. It does provide an exception for activities allowed by law, which would include licensed CC and unlicensed OC. It is just deceptive. As pointed out by another poster, those unfamiliar with the law will assume that it would be illegal to carry in the park.

    It is going to be nice to live in a State where other carriers and I can get together, going about armed, and not be considered a "demonstration," where being armed would be prohibited by law. I'd love it if a bunch of us milled about such a sign, creating an ironic scene as we all OCed.


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    Sorry I meant that I take the class on the third and Im getting my license the next day. I have a friend who works in the sheriffs office who can get my my license the right away when I turn my class completion in. No waiting

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual101 View Post
    Sorry I meant that I take the class on the third and Im getting my license the next day. I have a friend who works in the sheriffs office who can get my my license the right away when I turn my class completion in. No waiting
    That's interesting.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    ... I'd love it if a bunch of us milled about such a sign, creating an ironic scene as we all OCed...
    Just for you, eye95.

    Here is a picture, over 4 years old now, of BB62, armed, at Fountain Square in Cincy:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bb62.jpg 
Views:	169 
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ID:	9365


    http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...7/IMG_2417.jpg

    The fight against illegal laws in Cincinnati is not new and is ongoing.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    Just for you, eye95.

    Here is a picture, over 4 years old now, of BB62, armed, at Fountain Square in Cincy:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bb62.jpg 
Views:	169 
Size:	89.6 KB 
ID:	9365


    http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...7/IMG_2417.jpg

    The fight against illegal laws in Cincinnati is not new and is ongoing.
    I see a big red toolbox, but no can of spray paint. Is the kettle of tar and crate of feathers off camera???????

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    Quote Originally Posted by color of law View Post
    I see a big red toolbox, but no can of spray paint. Is the kettle of tar and crate of feathers off camera???????
    Maybe the guy who took the picture has the spray paint?
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual101 View Post
    Sorry I meant that I take the class on the third and Im getting my license the next day. I have a friend who works in the sheriffs office who can get my my license the right away when I turn my class completion in. No waiting
    What department is this? I need to talk to that guy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    Just for you, eye95.

    Here is a picture, over 4 years old now, of BB62, armed, at Fountain Square in Cincy:...
    That guy is DEFINITELY a criminal!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    That guy is DEFINITELY a criminal!
    Yeah, no doubt he's been on more than a few post office walls. Look at those shifty eyes... a flout-law if I ever saw one!

    BTW: You need a bigger gun.
    Last edited by JmE; 10-08-2012 at 09:43 AM.

  16. #16
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    I shall not post the comment that I really want to post.

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    .....the following are prohibited except as authorized by a permit or otherwise authorized by law.
    Is it the "or otherwise by law" component that makes the sign invalid?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is it the "or otherwise by law" component that makes the sign invalid?
    I would say it makes the sign valid, but meaningless.

    The sign might as well say, "You can't carry unless the law allows you to carry, and BTW, the law does."

    The purpose of the sign is to confuse law-abiding citizens into not carrying. It probably also confuses LEOs into harassing law-abiding carriers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I would say it makes the sign valid, but meaningless.

    The sign might as well say, "You can't carry unless the law allows you to carry, and BTW, the law does."

    The purpose of the sign is to confuse law-abiding citizens into not carrying. It probably also confuses LEOs into harassing law-abiding carriers.
    Although this subject has been beat to death and back, it is the general consensus that the sign refers to LEO, being authorized by law, not CCW holders.

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=48537
    Last edited by JSlack7851; 10-17-2012 at 05:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSlack7851 View Post
    Although this subject has been beat to death and back, it is the general consensus that the sign refers to LEO, being authorized by law, not CCW holders.

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=48537
    Where in the plain-reading do we get that it applies only to LEOs. Even if the authors meant that, unless the sign says that it means LEOs, it applies to all carriers.

    Isn't there a principle in law that says if a law (or a rule, a regulation, or a sign) is ambiguous, it is to be construed in the way that is least restrictive to the People?

    Oh, and I don't visit that site any more for reasons I have cited earlier, so I couldn't care less if that horse was beaten to death there. I am discussing it here.

    BTW, I get the distinct impression that you intensely dislike how this site is run. The logical course would be to post elsewhere. Much like me posting here and not there.
    Last edited by eye95; 10-17-2012 at 05:33 PM.

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    The plain meaning rule advises interpreters to follow the plain meaning of language unless the text suggests an absurd result. Many states have implicitly codified the plain meaning rule by referring to its absurd results exception.

    ORC 1.42
    Words and phrases shall be read in context and construed according to the rules of grammar and common usage. Words and phrases that have acquired a technical or particular meaning, whether by legislative definition or otherwise, shall be construed accordingly.
    The state sign placed on a private business can only be understood as a "welcome" sign.

    The Attorney General's handbook makes it clear. Private business better go seek legal advise before posting the state's sign on their private property. That is the warning shot across the bow.

    The only consensus that has been reached is by the AG. Businesses and persons wishing to post such signs are strongly advised to consult their legal counsel for language, style, format, and placement.

    I'm just saying......

  22. #22
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    Walk in downtown Cincy

    The local mall has no signs on the door. However, once inside, if you look for them, you can find the "rules." Among them is a "no weapons" policy. The typeface is not small, but it is smaller than you typically see on the standard signs. How enforceable is this? Not that I'd violate it. Just curious.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The local mall has no signs on the door. However, once inside, if you look for them, you can find the "rules." Among them is a "no weapons" policy. The typeface is not small, but it is smaller than you typically see on the standard signs. How enforceable is this? Not that I'd violate it. Just curious.


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    This has happened a few times...normally the mall security will ask you to leave, and probably contact law enforcement. If you opt to leave, that's likely the end of it. If you stay around long enough to have further discussion with LE, chances are you'll get to take a ride in the back of a cruiser.

    I know that's far from a direct answer, but it's all I've got to offer, based on experiences related by OC'ers around Ohio. Lots and lots of gray area relevant to "conspicuous'.

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    Walk in downtown Cincy

    Sounds pretty much like what I experienced in Montgomery at Eastdale Mall--except for the cruiser ride. Most of the PD came to me and I was not "free to go" for about two hours. Ultimately, I was told that I could put my pistol in the car and then return or I could leave. I chose to leave and never return. The officer who first stopped me escorted me to my car, where, in front of him, I promptly reloaded and reholstered.

    Since there was no sign, the officer had no RAS and the detention was illegal. Had there been a sign, they still could've only asked me to leave, but IMO he would have had RAS. No-gun signs in Alabama do not set up a trespass situation.


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