Sounds like you both handled the situation as best you could.
Thread: Interesting Safeway Encounter
I have been shopping at Safeway since I have been back in the Seattle area. There is a store right across the street from my apartment. In my opinion, their quality vs cost is better than the other grocery stores in my immediate area (Albertsons and QFC). I carry in grocery stores all the time, sometimes openly, sometimes concealed and any encounters I have had were positive or mere curiosity.
Today was a bit unusual. I needed to pick up a prescription and find a way to dispose of a box of sharps that I have had for a couple of weeks now. I went to the pharmacy, picked up my prescription, but they said they couldn't take the sharps (and I have no idea how to dispose of them safely), so I went back to my truck and dropped both items off. I also had to do a bit of other shopping for a party I am going to later so I went back into the store to continue shopping. I browsed through the wine aisle, didn't find what I was looking for, then proceeded to the Starbucks for a much needed drink. After I ordered, the store manager walked up to me and pulled me aside. I don't recall every detail (and for the life of me I didn't get his name), but he told me that employees and customers had been complaining about somebody carrying a weapon in the store. He gave me the private property line and said he didn't want anybody "brandishing" in the store.
I easily corrected him -- "I am aware of property property rights and will happily respect them. I have been shopping here for months and have carried every single time. I spend a fair amount of money here too." I also stated, "as long as the weapon is in a holster and I am not handling it or pointing it at anybody, then I am perfectly legal. I carry this way for comfort and convenience and not to make a statement or intimidate people. The right to carry this way is an added bonus. Are there any Safeway policies that I am not aware of because this is the first time I have had anybody talk to me about this?" (This is highly paraphrased and not in any particular order. -- I need to learn how to quickly turn my recording app off and on, but I think I need a new phone first.
He said he wasn't sure, but as the store manager he could ask me to cover or leave. I responded that, yes you can ask me to leave, but be aware that I will shop at your competitors instead because I carry for my protection and I am not willing to surrender that capability.
He seemed like he was in a bit of a pickle. He stated he wanted to have me as a customer and respect my right to carry - to which he said he would contact other managers in the area and I said I would ask corporate if they had any official word on the matter. He said that was fine.
I asked him as he was leaving -- "just so we are clear, are you asking me to cover or disarm?" He said, "for now IF YOU CAN (for emphasis) please cover, come back later and we can discuss it."
This is the first time I have had any kind of interaction with a store manager and I think I did ok -- I can't truly place this in the negative column because he seemed inclined to respect my rights (because he wants my money) but also wanted to "make sure" because he indicated that a number of people had complained -- I don't envy his position, respecting all of the rights of your customers vs PR
Last edited by acmariner99; 08-31-2012 at 07:45 PM.
Sounds like you both handled the situation as best you could.
Sounds like rational adults trying to hash out conflicting imperatives like rational adults. How pleasantly novel.
Give this to manager upon next meeting. http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?act...a=view;down=75
Policy is to follow state law.
"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms." Josey Wales
Slightly Otish but... You should be able to drop off the sharps at either an ER or your doctor's office. The office may be a little reluctant as they usually have to pay based on weight for waste disposal.
Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"
Today was a bit unusual. I needed to pick up a prescription and find a way to dispose of a box of sharps that I have had for a couple of weeks now. I went to the pharmacy, picked up my prescription, but they said they couldn't take the sharps (and I have no idea how to dispose of them safely),
In most counties in Washington (except Seattle residents in King County) it is currently legal to put used sharps that are in a household container with a lid into the garbage.
However, this is highly discouraged because of the injury and health risks it places on garbage hauler and processing facility workers. It is best to use one of the options previously listed for safe management and disposal of used sharps.
NEVER PLACE LOOSE NEEDLES AND SYRINGES IN THE TRASH!
Label container “Do Not Recycle.”
Put sharps in point-first.
Containers more than half-full should be disposed of.
Store sharps in closed container with the cap screwed on.
Although placing household generated sharps in the regular trash may be allowable under state rule, some municipalities prohibit this disposal method. Please check with the local authority to determine if this practice is acceptable in your community. You should contact your county or city waste manager, public health official, sanitary department, or environmental health department.
For more information, contact the Washington State Department of Ecology at www.ecy.wa.gov/ecyhome.html or call (360) 407-6000.
Hurray, an encounter where the OCer didn't mention signage!
Handled it perfectly, sir.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2
"A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"
"According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)
Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....
Contacted you in a Starbucks? Starbucks is vocally "state Law"!
Last edited by hermannr; 08-31-2012 at 11:37 PM.
Here in WA you won't find any signage at Safeway because they follow state law, even though some of the employees are clueless.
"The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
"Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.
It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin
I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.
I can't speak for other areas,but I know the waste transfer station (dump) in Clark County will accept 'sharps/bio-hazard' material on their once-a-month 'free' chemical turn in day (for things like old paint, Automotive chemicals, yard chemicals, expired drugs, sharps, etc). Sharps MUST be in a proper sharps container (you leave the container too), properly labeled and 'sealed' as best is feasibly possible, and you need to have an attendant actually 'receive' anything with the bio-hazard label on it unlike other chemicals which you can just drop off in the appropriate area.
For those who don't know:
The state law merely means one can carry. It doesn't prevent private property owners from refusing to allow.
And YES, they can deny your 2A rights because it's private property and their rules are not a form of Government restriction.
As for getting "corporate" to chastise the manager, good luck. All he has to do is repeat his statement "your open carry has been disturbing other customers" and they'll go along with his explanation.
Boycott? Don't overlook the fact that this was threatened against Starbucks by "the other side". Only time a boycott works is when it can be directly connected to reduced revenues and profits. Good luck on that front.
"If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"
"If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"
acmariner as much as you have been here i thought you would know by now safeway official policy is to follow state law. as is fred meyer, walmart, target, sams, winco, starbucks and many others.
A guy i worked with had his first OC encounter at his local safeway and because i had already educated him on the matter when the manager contacted him he replied by suggesting the manager take a look at the official company policy on the matter because it stated the above. the manager went and checked and came back and told him to have a nice day and enjoy his shopping.
+thought for the day+
++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++
I would be more concerned that they believed that merely shopping with a holstered firearm is brandishing. While state laws are different, usually brandishing requires an element of "menacing" or "threatening". Which, by your description of the event, you weren't.
I may have taken a second to educate on that bit, as soon as he mentioned it. The last thing you want is for law enforcement to be called and show up at the store to handle a "man brandishing a firearm". That could get ugly fast.
Otherwise I think you handled it well.
No one is going to bring up the fact that there is no technical "Brandishing" in WA?... I'm pretty sure that there's no Law or Definition in the RCW or WAC that even mentions the word "Brandish". The closest would be RCW 9.41.270 which doesn't even come close since it doesn't say anything like "Brandish" it fails to meet the Time, Place, Manner or Circumstance so that's like 0/4 for "Brandishing"...
Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 09-01-2012 at 01:59 PM.
"though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin
“It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)
In WA state the public health clinics take needles. There is generally a bin out front for them. In Renton it is at 3001 NE 4th St, Renton, WA.
For the King County residents a list of drop box locations and rules for sharps disposal is here:
Last edited by Lante; 09-01-2012 at 06:08 PM. Reason: add link
I had the exact same confrontation with a manager at a Safeway in Gresham Oregon. He did however open up a closed register and rang my friend and I up to get us out quickly. Safeway is not opposed to weapons in the stores but the managers are not informed about it enough. It's understandable that he just wants his customers happy. At least he was polite and not opposing you, and even offered to ask around about the policy.
My firearm is my private property, and my ownership of it does not change depending on who owns the surface I am standing on, any more than my ownership of my shoes or my wallet changes. A property owner (or agents of the owner) can exercise their private property rights to exclude me from the property. But that has no impact on my own property rights or anyone else's.
I did correct him for improperly using the word "brandishing" -- he apologized for using the wrong terminology. I didn't have time to follow up with him yesterday due to a good OC meet and me working with a new addition to my firearms family -- a sleek Kimber Pro Carry II 1911. Kimber 1911s are probably the nicest guns I have ever fired.
I should hopefully get a response from the manager in a day or two. Somebody posted a policy response ... thank you.
When you dropped off or called in the script, did they inform you that OC was not allowed?
If not, then I would have a big big problem here. Are you supposed to just leave and die on the sidewalk because you could not get your life-requiring drugs?
And I am flip-flopping on rights of business owners on this point.
Look, you, I, and businesses own property. I don't allow people on my land...I do not allow the public to go on my land. Businesses open up their land to the public...and only the government can regulate firearms. Land owned by businesses can be kept gun free by keeping out the public; once you invite and allow the public to go onto the property, then you cannot turn around and begin to regulate. Its still their land and they can prevent CC/OC anytime they want-by closing the access of the public onto their land. I would akin CC/OC to religion -- its something you choose to perform --- and the law should recognize discrimination against those that do. Most discrimination involves stuff you have no control over (age, sex, color, nationality, etc) but their are others too that have been narrowly defined. Religion and CC/OC should be included.
Additionally, once you open your land up to the public, you have opened up your land to all the public, not just people you like.