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Thread: Man dead after confrontation with Tacoma police officer

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Man dead after confrontation with Tacoma police officer

    http://www.king5.com/news/cities/tac...168217026.html
    Tacoma PD said the officer was not injured in the incident, which occurred near the intersection of S. 8th St. and S. M St. in Tacoma.

    Tacoma Police Chief Dan Ramsdell said police received a report around 4 p.m. of a man and woman fighting at apartment in North Tacoma.

    When police arrived at that scene they found no one there and moved on to 809 South M St. where they believed one of the people lived.
    How about your .02 on this story?
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Well an armed subject at a DV call not obeying officer commands, my first instinct is justified.

    However this story just occured and there may be unreleased details, or an investigation may determine the officer lied or was confused or whatever. I'm not officially taking a side until there is more info out there.

    But it doesn't appear to fail the smell test.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Entirely too little information to even have a semi-informed opinion.

    I'll wait.
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    I dunno .. I was not there (or you cannot prove I was there)

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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    I will have to get the inside scoop on this. I will be talking to someone on the inside tomorrow so I will find out what actually happened. So much that the news always leaves out.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Entirely too little information to even have a semi-informed opinion.

    I'll wait.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaOps View Post
    I will have to get the inside scoop on this. I will be talking to someone on the inside tomorrow so I will find out what actually happened. So much that the news always leaves out.
    If you mean talking to the cops I am absolutely positive that will not be an unbiased inside scoop.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1



    If you mean talking to the cops I am absolutely positive that will not be an unbiased inside scoop.
    maybe not but he'll have more info then the network news media. I have friend who's a police officer in a nearby department. they always get at least the exact story the officer told, that information could be useful to compare to media reports. and since cops have friends in other departments, you don't even need a direct line to the involved department since cops share that information amongst themselves.

    I mean unless it's proof positive the officer screwed up, most cops naturally want to believe their fellow officer, but inside stories I've found are nearly always more reliable then some newpaper reporter's conjecture.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  8. #8
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    and since cops have friends in other departments, you don't even need a direct line to the involved department since cops share that information amongst themselves.
    Like the kid's game of "telephone"?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    Like the kid's game of "telephone"?
    Now I knew that game as "chinese whispers" I actually had to look up "telephone"

    That certainly can happen, no one is completely trustworthy. one must always take such info with a grain of salt, but I think it's typically more reliable then king5 news when it comes to officer involved incidents.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    crack head and cop get into it.

    The way I believe the story...



    Reporters version-after learning to read between the lines

    Crack Head's version- after taking out the "it wasn't me's" and exagerations

    Maybe Cops version
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    The officer has been with the department for about 5 years, and has already been involved in 2 lethal encounters.

    Most officers never fire their gun outside of training, this guy does it twice while still a rookie...

    One of the victims is active duty military.

    Makes you think.
    Last edited by TechnoWeenie; 09-02-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    The officer has been with the department for about 5 years, and has already been involved in 2 lethal encounters.

    Most officers never fire their gun outside of training, this guy does it twice while still a rookie...

    One of the victims is active duty military.

    Makes you think.
    No it really doesn't. I'm of the school that each use of force needs to be investigated as a separate incident. If you're in a job in which you're dealing with scum bags all the time promises cannot be made as to how many times force will or will not be nessecary. It's just like the military, some people will never be deployed, some deployed 3 times or more. What situations you encounter may very well be the luck of the draw. Especially in a neighborhood like the Hilltop

    Is there any media reports detailing his first Officer involved shooting?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    ...dealing with scum bags all the time...
    There's the bias.

    I think that speaks for itself.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    If you're in a job in which you're dealing with scum bags all the time
    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf23 View Post
    There's the bias.

    I think that speaks for itself.
    Bias? Isn't that what they're paid to do? Deal with the scumbags in society? If not, why do we give them guns?

    Probably because nobody really wants to deal with them on their own. When their work world is heavily weighted with the lesser desirable tasks in society why wouldn't they develop a bias. They're also more likely to have a more heightened survival instinct. You know, the one that causes them to shoot when they see a gun in the hands of someone they believe is about to use it on them.

    Still a lack of facts. I think I'll "wait for the book" before I form a firm opinion.
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    From the article:
    When the officer tried to stop him, the officer said the man pulled out a gun.
    Ramsdell said it is not clear yet why the officer felt he had to use deadly force
    Um, OK...

    You've got to be kidding me.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Here is another news source on the story.

    http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-taco...,6499916.story
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No it really doesn't. I'm of the school that each use of force needs to be investigated as a separate incident. If you're in a job in which you're dealing with scum bags all the time promises cannot be made as to how many times force will or will not be nessecary. It's just like the military, some people will never be deployed, some deployed 3 times or more. What situations you encounter may very well be the luck of the draw. Especially in a neighborhood like the Hilltop

    Is there any media reports detailing his first Officer involved shooting?
    Aw screw it. So what if he shot someone without proper cause. Doesn't matter that it's happened before and he has a pattern of it. After all, each time is a separate incident.


    So that is how you think it should be handled? So you think it wouldn't matter if he does (not saying he does, using example) have a pattern of abuse of powers? And who cares if there are any media reports detailing his first shooting. After all, each one should be investigated as a separate incident you said.

  18. #18
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohawk001 View Post
    Aw screw it. So what if he shot someone without proper cause. Doesn't matter that it's happened before and he has a pattern of it. After all, each time is a separate incident.
    So If he shot someone without proper cause he should be fired, or if it is a serious bad faith incident, put in jail. However this is what inquest boards, internal affairs, and the Prosecuting Attorney and the Courts are for. obviously these groups must have adjudicated his previous officer involved shooting as justified, or at least couldn't agree he was unjustified in his previous shooting. therefore he has no pattern of bad shootings, he has one clean shoot on his record.

    So that is how you think it should be handled? So you think it wouldn't matter if he does (not saying he does, using example) have a pattern of abuse of powers?
    If his "abuses of powers" are documented and result in sustained disciplinary measures or criminal charges, then yes that should matter in terms of "the last straw" so to speak before he's fired. But it should not be relevant to the open investigation on the table. And previous incidents that have been ruled justified or the complaint not sustained should not be count as a pattern (this is basic due process).

    And I am uniformly fair on this one, if you have a legitimate defensive gun use and the shooting is ruled justified, I don't think that incident should have bearing (or even be admissible) if you have a second DGU years later. I think this way for investigating both cops and civilians alike. previous incidents can taint an investigation on a current incident that may well be justified. so I think it is in the best interests of the community and the very concept of justice that separate incidents be treated separately and viewed under one scope "was this incident, at this time, at the time the officer/citizen pulled the trigger, justified or not justified on its own merits"
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-02-2012 at 07:15 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    I got the scoop. I don't care what others think, my source is very reliable, and they are not a cop.

    The man had already assaulted his girlfriend. That was the main reason for the call. The girl left his place and went home and called the police. He followed and was walking to her door when confronted by the LEO. The LEO then asked the man to stop. The man proceeded to pull out his gun and tried to kick in the door. The LEO again told the man to stop and drop the gun. The man ignored all commands from the LEO. the LEO then open fired on the man after several attempts to get him to stop and drop the gun.

    You will not get that from the news cause that is not what people want to hear.
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  20. #20
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Girlfriend of Army sergeant killed by Tacoma Police is seeking answers

    Sounds about right DeltaOps as now the girlfriend is having remorse about the fight and likely looking to justify her part in the incident leading up to the shooting.

    As anyone of know having a CPL is not a sign of knowledge or ability when it comes to firearms, removing a firearm from it's holster when officers are responding to an incident and ignoring demands to put the gun down is just plain stupid.
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  21. #21
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I knew this guy, not real well. We were in the same unit at Ft. Lewis. So if we can drop the crack head/scumbug references I would appreciate it. Let's get some more facts first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I knew this guy, not real well. We were in the same unit at Ft. Lewis.
    Then you probably know Stringer. He told me about this case just a couple of nights ago, and said he didn't believe Gavin would be violent towards his girlfriend, or resist the police.

    To me, given the character references I've heard, I think we have another Erik Scott/Costco situation, where miscommunication and willingness to use deadly force quickly clashed with bad consequences.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Then you probably know Stringer. He told me about this case just a couple of nights ago, and said he didn't believe Gavin would be violent towards his girlfriend, or resist the police.

    To me, given the character references I've heard, I think we have another Erik Scott/Costco situation, where miscommunication and willingness to use deadly force quickly clashed with bad consequences.
    Maybe or maybe not. The opinions of personal friends will not negate that the GF made a call for help, though now she seems to have "buyer's remorse". Nothing has indicated whether she had any physical injuries either.

    Hopefully we shall be able to hear that tape and see any dash cam evidence before this is over.

    Still waiting for something concrete.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I knew this guy, not real well. We were in the same unit at Ft. Lewis. So if we can drop the crack head/scumbug references I would appreciate it. Let's get some more facts first.
    My crackhead analogy was not meant to be about the persons/people in this account. It was just a list about who I would trust first. I apologize if it seemed that I was.

    Yes we need more info first.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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