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Thread: Stolen Guns Recovered, Taken by Police as Evidence!

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Stolen Guns Recovered, Taken by Police as Evidence!

    So I woke up this moring to a phone call from my father saying that two of his guns were missing. He CCs regularly so he keeps them hidden in his room. He called the police and they came out. We figured out pretty quickly that two of my younger brother's "friends" has taken the guns. The police questioned the boys and they confessed to breaking into my father's house and stealing the weapons.

    It turns out that my little brother had shown them about a month before where the guns were. The police knew this, but wanted to confirm it with my LB. They said they wanted to ask him a few questions. My dad, not knowing at this time my LB's involvement, asked the magic words "Is my son being detained, or is he free to go?" The officer responded that he was in fact being detained for questioning. My dad said he wanted a lawyer for my LB. The police officer said "Incredible!" then told the other officer at the scene to hold off "on those affidavits." It turns out they were going to release the firearms back to my father, but since my dad "flip-flopped" and they couldn't be sure how the perps knew about the guns, they didn't feel that they were "safe".

    My question is this: How can my father get his guns back before the trial? The "nice" officer gave me the number to the Commonwealth Attorney's office, but we are unsure how to proceed.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post

    My question is this: How can my father get his guns back before the trial?
    You can't.

    They are evidence and will not be returned until after the trial, and/or appeal process (unless the CA's office has some wacky new policy)
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    If the "nice" cop had indeed released the handguns back to your father there is a good possibility that the criminal case against the two who had possession of them would have been fatally compromised. There needs to be a chain of possession of the evidence once it is obtained, until trial when your father claims ownership.

    Your father's asking for an attorney for your LB was a good move - there is a possibility that he could be charged as an accessory before the fact, if not also after the fact. There is also a good possibility that he will be eating all his meals standing up for the next several months - but that's a family matter as opposed to a legal one.

    BTW - this is an excellent example of why you do not share confidential information with anyone. The temptation to show off by telling someone else that you know a "secret" is too real. It is also an indication that your father may find himself in legal hot water for not securing his handguns -
    all depends on how old LB is.
    18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to recklessly leave a loaded, unsecured firearm in such a manner as to endanger the life or limb of any child under the age of fourteen. Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.
    B. It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to authorize a child under the age of twelve to use a firearm except when the child is under the supervision of an adult. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. For purposes of this subsection, "adult" shall mean a parent, guardian, person standing in loco parentis to the child or a person twenty-one years or over who has the permission of the parent, guardian, or person standing in loco parentis to supervise the child in the use of a firearm.
    Lots of lessons in this. thanks for posting.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    If the "nice" cop had indeed released the handguns back to your father there is a good possibility that the criminal case against the two who had possession of them would have been fatally compromised. There needs to be a chain of possession of the evidence once it is obtained, until trial when your father claims ownership.

    Your father's asking for an attorney for your LB was a good move - there is a possibility that he could be charged as an accessory before the fact, if not also after the fact. There is also a good possibility that he will be eating all his meals standing up for the next several months - but that's a family matter as opposed to a legal one.

    BTW - this is an excellent example of why you do not share confidential information with anyone. The temptation to show off by telling someone else that you know a "secret" is too real. It is also an indication that your father may find himself in legal hot water for not securing his handguns -
    all depends on how old LB is.
    18.2-56.2. Allowing access to firearms by children; penalty.


    Lots of lessons in this. thanks for posting.

    stay safe.
    Skid your value on this site is immeasurable! I actually told my dad what to say and when to say it, and those were all things I learned here. Additionally, luckily for all involved, my LB is 15, so that isn't an issue.

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    Kudos to your dad for knowing to demand clarity of LB's status, and requesting legal counsel. Also, kudos to your for educating him, and vicariously to Skid for educating you!

    I hope you take a big brotherly interest in LB and show him the facts of life in a way that parents usually can't. As a father of five in a blended family, I have always tried to do my best, which sometimes means relying on the other kids to correct their siblings when they might resist hearing the same message from the 'rents.

    It does work.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Skid your value on this site is immeasurable!
    Not bad for a grumpy old curmudgeon, eh?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Not bad for a grumpy old curmudgeon, eh?
    It's the pearl grips!

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Kudos to your dad for knowing to demand clarity of LB's status, and requesting legal counsel. Also, kudos to your for educating him, and vicariously to Skid for educating you!

    I hope you take a big brotherly interest in LB and show him the facts of life in a way that parents usually can't. As a father of five in a blended family, I have always tried to do my best, which sometimes means relying on the other kids to correct their siblings when they might resist hearing the same message from the 'rents.

    It does work.
    Yeah, the one cop called me "Lawyer" because I was whispering all this advice in my dads ear the entire time. He didn't want to speak to me the rest of the time he was there.

    And as far as teaching my LB, I always try to educate him. I told him months ago that his "friends" were no good. Most of them have rap sheets, and we aren't the only family that has had issues with break-ins / things being stolen.

    On that note though, does anyone know the penalties for juvenile offenders? One is 13 and the other 15. I researched the Code of Virginia and came up with a few things I believe they could be charged with, but we still don't know for sure.

    -Eddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    "Is my son being detained, or is he free to go?" The officer responded that he was in fact being detained for questioning. My dad said he wanted a lawyer for my LB. The police officer said "Incredible!" then told the other officer at the scene to hold off "on those affidavits." It turns out they were going to release the firearms back to my father, but since my dad "flip-flopped" and they couldn't be sure how the perps knew about the guns, they didn't feel that they were "safe".
    .
    The cops just lied to him, trying to get him to allow questioning without a lawyer. Use your brain..how is asking for a lawyer related to getting his guns back...

    "hold off on those affidavits"??? Never were any or were going to be any.

    Your father did the 100% correct thing.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-02-2012 at 12:32 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Yeah, the one cop called me "Lawyer" because I was whispering all this advice in my dads ear the entire time. He didn't want to speak to me the rest of the time he was there.

    And as far as teaching my LB, I always try to educate him. I told him months ago that his "friends" were no good. Most of them have rap sheets, and we aren't the only family that has had issues with break-ins / things being stolen.

    On that note though, does anyone know the penalties for juvenile offenders? One is 13 and the other 15. I researched the Code of Virginia and came up with a few things I believe they could be charged with, but we still don't know for sure.

    -Eddy
    http://www.nccourts.org/forms/Documents/503.pdf

    Would think that NC laws were similar, but a quick search did not yield a cite.
    http://medvinlaw.com/alexandria-virg...t-proceedings/
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-02-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    I am seriously hoping they throw the book at these kids. From what I can tell, the minimum sentence would be 1 year. But considering the boys' history, I am hoping the older one will be tried as an adult. I just can not fathom why two young kids would steal a pair of loaded pistols.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I am seriously hoping they throw the book at these kids. From what I can tell, the minimum sentence would be 1 year. But considering the boys' history, I am hoping the older one will be tried as an adult. I just can not fathom why two young kids would steal a pair of loaded pistols.
    Not in your part of the country, but how close did you say the nearest convenience store is? With rap sheets like you say they have, I can make a pretty darn good educated guess what they were going to do after the furor died done about the guns being stolen.

    Yeah, I'm a suspicious, cynical old coot. For good reason: it's kept me alive all these years!!
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    ....
    On that note though, does anyone know the penalties for juvenile offenders? One is 13 and the other 15. I researched the Code of Virginia and came up with a few things I believe they could be charged with, but we still don't know for sure.
    -Eddy
    The disposition handed down (juveniles are never found guilty, merely "not innocent" and they are never sentenced, just given "dispositions".) will depend on two things:

    1- how PO'd the judge is that morning. His attitude will be influenced somewhat by the report submitted by the juvenile probation officer who will either highlight or soft-pedal their prior record.

    2- how far from 15 and how close to 18 they are. Closer to 15 seems to result in more probation (with or without community service work*) while closer to 18 seems to result in increasingly longer terms in either the local or state juvie prison (where they can compare notes with and learn from the kids with longer rap sheets).

    If I were the victim here I would be looking to see what actual damages were made to not only the handguns but to any other property (real or personal) because I have the option of not submitting a claim to my homeowner's insurance company but filing a petition in juvie court against the parents for restitution. Want to get their attention? Grab them in the wallet for what their little darling(s) did.

    stay safe.

    * Your dad might want to contact the local animal shelter to find out if they could use someone to clean out pens and cart dog poop away, and tell them he knows where a pair of likely candidates could be found. And then speak with the juvenile probation officer about the possibility of the miscreants providing community service and he just happens to know of a place that really needs it. Other possibilities are washing down fire engines* every day (including weekends) after school and twice on days when the engines have become soot-covered at a fire. Or washing cop cars. Or school buses. I think you start to see the possibilities.

    Because firefighters hang their hoses to dry as soon after use as possible the kids may not get to do a lot of that, but hoses are a b*tch to roll, too.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It's the pearl grips!

    Upon oath I aver that I have never been within 100 miles* of New Orleans.

    stay safe.

    *When mentioning the place, the maximum distance I could spit, thanks to outrage and revulsion.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The disposition handed down (juveniles are never found guilty, merely "not innocent" and they are never sentenced, just given "dispositions".) will depend on two things:

    1- how PO'd the judge is that morning. His attitude will be influenced somewhat by the report submitted by the juvenile probation officer who will either highlight or soft-pedal their prior record.

    2- how far from 15 and how close to 18 they are. Closer to 15 seems to result in more probation (with or without community service work*) while closer to 18 seems to result in increasingly longer terms in either the local or state juvie prison (where they can compare notes with and learn from the kids with longer rap sheets).

    If I were the victim here I would be looking to see what actual damages were made to not only the handguns but to any other property (real or personal) because I have the option of not submitting a claim to my homeowner's insurance company but filing a petition in juvie court against the parents for restitution. Want to get their attention? Grab them in the wallet for what their little darling(s) did.
    So you mean to tell me that they most likely will only receive probation? For stealing two loaded firearms and breaking into someone's house?!
    There was no damage to the house or the guns, can we still expect some sort of restitution for the "emotional stress"? (My dad was severely PO'd)

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Please allow me to inject two cautionary notes here:

    1. If these little angelic darlings get nothing but probation and/or community service, you, your dad, and your brother need to be watching your backs.

    2. If these little angelic darlings do get any sort of jail/juvenile detention time, you, your dad, and your brother will definitely need to be watching your backs. Not for the little darlings, but for their parents!!

    Back in the Dark Ages, right after I retired from the Army, I worked in a convenience store. A fourteen-year-old kid came into the store, went to the back of the store, pulled up a bandanna over his face, and then jumped out at me. When he did, he was looking down the barrel of my weapon.

    I called the cops and they arrested him for attempted armed robbery (he had a pocket knife on him). Momma and Daddy came to the store crying about it the next day. There were some comments made that caused both me and my manager to have some concerns and Momma and Daddy got to talk to the local police. They were told to not come back in that store.

    All I'm saying is the three of you need to be very, very careful for some time.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Please allow me to inject two cautionary notes here:

    1. If these little angelic darlings get nothing but probation and/or community service, you, your dad, and your brother need to be watching your backs.

    2. If these little angelic darlings do get any sort of jail/juvenile detention time, you, your dad, and your brother will definitely need to be watching your backs. Not for the little darlings, but for their parents!!

    Back in the Dark Ages, right after I retired from the Army, I worked in a convenience store. A fourteen-year-old kid came into the store, went to the back of the store, pulled up a bandanna over his face, and then jumped out at me. When he did, he was looking down the barrel of my weapon.

    I called the cops and they arrested him for attempted armed robbery (he had a pocket knife on him). Momma and Daddy came to the store crying about it the next day. There were some comments made that caused both me and my manager to have some concerns and Momma and Daddy got to talk to the local police. They were told to not come back in that store.

    All I'm saying is the three of you need to be very, very careful for some time.
    As for the 13YO, his mom thinks he NEEDS to be locked up, her and my mom are pretty good friends and I don't think she would make a fuss. When her 2nd and 3rd oldest got caught with marijuana, she begged the police to take her sons into custody, but the officer just issued a summons.

    As far as the other child is concerned, I'm not sure of his parents' feelings on the matter.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Not in your part of the country, but how close did you say the nearest convenience store is? With rap sheets like you say they have, I can make a pretty darn good educated guess what they were going to do after the furor died done about the guns being stolen.

    Yeah, I'm a suspicious, cynical old coot. For good reason: it's kept me alive all these years!!
    The nearest convenience store is about a block from one of the kids' house.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008
    Skid your value on this site is immeasurable!
    I actually told my dad what to say and when to say it, and those were all things I learned here.
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Not bad for a grumpy old curmudgeon, eh?
    From descriptions I've read, he's closer to Santa.

    And has it occurred to anyone else that part of the reason they wanted the guns is that they're forbidden fruit?
    What if part of their sentence is that they have to take & pass a NRA Basic Pistol class?

    Part of the requirements for getting the certificate is having the correct attitude (knowledge, skills, attitude), so unless they're really good at maintaining a long-term front of angelic innocence & interest for their instructor, they'll either take the course over & over (which will get to be expensive... from their paper route earnings, or their parents' pockets), or they'll learn something & their attitude will really change.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    From descriptions I've read, he's closer to Santa.

    And has it occurred to anyone else that part of the reason they wanted the guns is that they're forbidden fruit?
    What if part of their sentence is that they have to take & pass a NRA Basic Pistol class?

    Part of the requirements for getting the certificate is having the correct attitude (knowledge, skills, attitude), so unless they're really good at maintaining a long-term front of angelic innocence & interest for their instructor, they'll either take the course over & over (which will get to be expensive... from their paper route earnings, or their parents' pockets), or they'll learn something & their attitude will really change.
    How much say does the victim of the crime have in what punishment the boys get? It seems to me that it would be the judges decision. Please correct me if I am wrong.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    How much say does the victim of the crime have in what punishment the boys get? It seems to me that it would be the judges decision. Please correct me if I am wrong.
    It's up to the Judge if the Victim gets to speak other than testify to the facts....but the crime is against the Commonwealth, not the Victim.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It's up to the Judge if the Victim gets to speak other than testify to the facts....but the crime is against the Commonwealth, not the Victim.
    Actually, the victim can submit a Victim Impact Statement. Discuss doing so with the juvenile probation officer, and be insistent if necessary. Again, if I were submitting such I would put emphasis on the initial aprehension for what they might have done with the stolen weapons (yes, use that word) and the apprehension I continue to live with based on their prior criminal and drug abuse record as it has been made known to you by their parents and other children in the neighborhood (again, yes, use those words).

    Even if the juvenie probation officer tells your father he cannot submit a Victim Impact Statement (wrong, but it might happen) he can walk into the Clerk's Office and hand-deliver one. All he needs to know is the yute's name - and he should already have that and the case number based on the subpeona for witness the Commonwealth issued (they did issue them, didn't they?).

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  23. #23
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Actually, the victim can submit a Victim Impact Statement. Discuss doing so with the juvenile probation officer, and be insistent if necessary. Again, if I were submitting such I would put emphasis on the initial aprehension for what they might have done with the stolen weapons (yes, use that word) and the apprehension I continue to live with based on their prior criminal and drug abuse record as it has been made known to you by their parents and other children in the neighborhood (again, yes, use those words).

    Even if the juvenie probation officer tells your father he cannot submit a Victim Impact Statement (wrong, but it might happen) he can walk into the Clerk's Office and hand-deliver one. All he needs to know is the yute's name - and he should already have that and the case number based on the subpeona for witness the Commonwealth issued (they did issue them, didn't they?).

    stay safe.
    That seems like a legitimate course of action. Although, as I previously stated, my father hasn't incurred any financial problems, he was very upset. I will probably write one for him

  24. #24
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    UPDATE

    So my father got a letter in the mail today from the Commonwealth Attorney's office. They want my father and brother as witnesses in court on December 6th. We still don't know exactly what the boys were charged with, but their mom says Grand Larceny and B&E.

    I'll keep you guys posted!
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    If you have their names you can get the charges from the Clerk's office - you can also find out if this will be a trial in juvie or a dispositional hearing to transfer them to adult court.

    You keep saying your dad has had no financial damages but you never mention the gun safe he went out and bought or the added security (even if was just those magnetic switch window alarms) system he added for the area where he put the gun safe. Also, you never mention the emotional pain your dad has and continued to endure, the strain in his relation ship with his wife and you and your younger brother, and the general anxiety he feels because he can no longer fully trust his younger/est son.

    Did I miss anything?

    It's not all about dollars when totaling up losses. These two thugettes have traumatized your dad, his family, and the whole neighborhood. If he can't get money then let him get retribution.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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