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Thread: Arrested last night

  1. #1
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    Arrested last night

    I won't get into much detail on the forum here, but last night I was arrested by two Kentucky State Policemen at a "traffic safety checkpoint". My firearm was on the center console and an officer took it and ran the serial number on it. To make a long story short I was arrested for "disorderly conduct" and "menacing".

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Arrested last night

    Stop talking, delete this post, and call a lawyer.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  3. #3
    Regular Member Tanner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Stop talking, delete this post, and call a lawyer.
    +100 Hope it works out for you though
    In our quest for knowledge we must be prepared for and armed against misinformation.

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    That's unfortunate.

    I don't think there's any need to delete this post as it doesn't have any more information in it than what the newspaper is probably reporting on it, except the newspaper will make the readers think that Charley jumped out of his car waving his gun around and threatening to kill everyone.

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    This puts me just 1 step closer to mounting a HD video cam with audio on the dash of my car.

  6. #6
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    I, for one, am glad you posted. Many folks here would be eager to assist you if possible. We should support each other every time something like this happens among our ranks. Keep us informed of what's happening.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  7. #7
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    I won't get into much detail on the forum here, but last night I was arrested by two Kentucky State Policemen at a "traffic safety checkpoint". My firearm was on the center console and an officer took it and ran the serial number on it. To make a long story short I was arrested for "disorderly conduct" and "menacing".
    After you win this you're going to have to tell use the full story. I would suggest getting in touch with a lawyer. I don't mind supporting your cause if you were indeed doing nothing (or just a little) wrong and they just trumped up the charges.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  8. #8
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    I do not understand the need to keep everything secret when charged. As long as you do not give your side of what you believed you did or did not do, you are ok. If arrested, the filing charges, unless filed under seal, are available for public disclosure. So post a copy of the ticket. Redact any personel information. I sure hope this gets taken care of quickly and if I guess, you were complaining about the taking of your firearm, which I understand would be illegal at a stop for alcohol check point, unless you were intoxicated. Remember RAS is different than Probable Cause. For an arrest PC is needed. I would never complain there, but I would raise a fuss at the KSP Post these gentlemen work. Good luck.
    Last edited by hotrod; 09-01-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member ZXguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    This puts me just 1 step closer to mounting a HD video cam with audio on the dash of my car.
    I keep one with me most all of the time for a variety of reasons. I'm especially partial to the ones at www.contour.com (that's what I have). However, I even saw a good one in the hunting dept at Walmart for 100 bucks. I think it's probably a good in vestment.

  10. #10
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    You're pretty much in the same boat as the guy at the Louisville Arby's. I hope like hell that you come out ok but I know it's probably going to cost you a ton of money. I pray a judge see's that your 4th A was sh!t all over and that the arrest was illegal.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  11. #11
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    I need to file FOIA requests, but I really have no idea how to do that stuff. I realize I should probably just do a google search and try to figure it out myself, but I would appreciate a walkthrough or being pointed to one for getting the information that I require. Currently I'm having trouble focusing on the task at hand, because even though I know the charges are bogus I'm well aware that court can be little more than a crap shoot at times. I will post the text of their complaint when I get back home for those that are curious.
    Last edited by CharleyCherokee; 09-01-2012 at 07:49 PM.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Your name
    Address line 1
    Address line 2
    Phone Number

    Date

    Addressee
    His/her address 1
    address 2


    Dear Mr/Ms Whoever; (Dear Sir or Madam; if you do not know who you are addressing this two)


    [Here you say all that you are requesting. Include the name of the person, the date of the incident and all types of information you want. This would include the arrest report, radio/cell communication, any video, etc. Anything you feel that you should have access to, the worst they can do is say no. Ask for all officers information, if they ran your weapon through NCIS, ect.]

    [Give them a time you wish to pick all this information up. I usually give them to the next friday. Include the amount that you wish to pay, $20 sounds reasonable. Have your contact information so they can contact you if there is a problem.]




    Sincerely [I usually leave this out because I don't like people]


    [Your handwritten signature]



    [Your name]





    It does not have to be perfect, they should give you the information you want anyways. Be specific on what you want, usually they will give you just what you ask for. If you are too broad they may give you information you do not want.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 09-01-2012 at 08:07 PM.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Angry


    (That's for the situation... not allowed to actually say what I think.)

    For the FOIA request, I usually say something like:
    In accordance with statute ###.## (whatever the Kentucky code for open records is) I am making this open records request for all information pertaining to my detention & arrest at [intersection or address] at approximately [time] on [date] by [officer names, if you have them].

    Please send all audio & video (from devices in or on the car or carried/worn by officers); audio of radio & cell phone traffic; printouts of any emails, texts, or other messages; notes, reports, and any other documentation relating to this incident. Please be sure to include a copy of the information officers received when they ran the serial number on my pistol.

    If the total cost for these copies exceeds [insert a reasonable amount... $20?] please contact me so we can discuss a more economical alternative. I will expect to receive these by [insert reasonable due date... no more than 1 month out].
    [I've also exercised the option of picking things up in person. Have them call when things are ready. ETA: having a hidden video camera along when you go to pick up your papers can be very useful. DAMHIK ]
    Last edited by MKEgal; 09-01-2012 at 09:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    I won't get into much detail on the forum here, but last night I was arrested by two Kentucky State Policemen at a "traffic safety checkpoint". My firearm was on the center console and an officer took it and ran the serial number on it. To make a long story short I was arrested for "disorderly conduct" and "menacing".
    Wow! There are so many rights violations here you will have no problem having this thrown out. I am curious as to why they charged you if you were in YOUR vehicle? If you would, PM me with details. This is insane! I find it odd this has now happened twice in a couple of weeks. These charges are false and numerous rights were violated; they charged you with 2 statutes that you were not violating! You will need a good lawyer that knows the law and constitutional aspects concerning firearms IF this doesn't get thrown out! PM me their reasoning for the charges and what happened and I will help any way I can.

    Here is something you might want to get started, and this will help you understand what will happen: KRS 15.520 Complaints against police officers -- Manner of investigation and hearing.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 09-01-2012 at 10:01 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Here is the statute that pertains to gaining access to what you need:

    61.872 Right to inspection -- Limitation.
    (1) All public records shall be open for inspection by any person, except as otherwise provided by KRS 61.870 to 61.884, and suitable facilities shall be made available by each public agency for the exercise of this right. No person shall remove original copies of public records from the offices of any public agency without the written permission of the official custodian of the record.
    (2) Any person shall have the right to inspect public records. The official custodian may require written application, signed by the applicant and with his name printed legibly on the application, describing the records to be inspected. The application shall be hand delivered, mailed, or sent via facsimile to the public agency.
    (3) A person may inspect the public records:
    (a) During the regular office hours of the public agency; or
    (b) By receiving copies of the public records from the public agency through the mail. The public agency shall mail copies of the public records to a person whose residence or principal place of business is outside the county in which the public records are located after he precisely describes the public records which are readily available within the public agency. If the person requesting the public records requests that copies of the records be mailed, the official custodian shall mail the copies upon receipt of all fees and the cost of mailing.
    (4) If the person to whom the application is directed does not have custody or control of the public record requested, that person shall notify the applicant and shall furnish the name and location of the official custodian of the agency's public records.
    (5) If the public record is in active use, in storage or not otherwise available, the official custodian shall immediately notify the applicant and shall designate a place, time, and date for inspection of the public records, not to exceed three (3) days from receipt of the application, unless a detailed explanation of the cause is given for further delay and the place, time, and earliest date on which the public record will be available for inspection.
    (6) If the application places an unreasonable burden in producing public records or if the custodian has reason to believe that repeated requests are intended to disrupt other essential functions of the public agency, the official custodian may refuse to permit inspection of the public records or mail copies thereof. However, refusal under this section shall be sustained by clear and convincing evidence.

    And...

    61.874 Abstracts, memoranda, copies -- Agency may prescribe fee -- Use of nonexempt public records for commercial purposes -- Online access.
    (1) Upon inspection, the applicant shall have the right to make abstracts of the public records and memoranda thereof, and to obtain copies of all public records not exempted by the terms of KRS 61.878. When copies are requested, the custodian may require a written request and advance payment of the prescribed fee, including postage where appropriate. If the applicant desires copies of public records other than written records, the custodian of the records shall duplicate the records or permit the applicant to duplicate the records; however, the custodian shall ensure that such duplication will not damage or alter the original records.
    (2) (a) Nonexempt public records used for noncommercial purposes shall be available for copying in either standard electronic or standard hard copy format, as designated by the party requesting the records, where the agency currently maintains the records in electronic format. Nonexempt public records used for noncommercial purposes shall be copied in standard hard copy format where agencies currently maintain records in hard copy format. Agencies are not required to convert hard copy format records to electronic formats.
    (b) The minimum standard format in paper form shall be defined as not less than 8 1/2 inches x 11 inches in at least one (1) color on white paper, or for electronic format, in a flat file electronic American Standard Code for Information Interchange (ASCII) format. If the public agency maintains electronic public records in a format other than ASCII, and this format conforms to the requestor's requirements, the public record may be provided in this alternate electronic format for standard fees as specified by the public agency. Any request for a public record in a form other than the forms described in this section shall be considered a nonstandardized request.
    (3) The public agency may prescribe a reasonable fee for making copies of nonexempt public records requested for use for noncommercial purposes which shall not exceed the actual cost of reproduction, including the costs of the media and any mechanical processing cost incurred by the public agency, but not including the cost of staff required. If a public agency is asked to produce a record in a nonstandardized format, or to tailor the format to meet the request of an individual or a group, the public agency may at its discretion provide the requested format and recover staff costs as well as any actual costs incurred.
    (4) (a) Unless an enactment of the General Assembly prohibits the disclosure of public records to persons who intend to use them for commercial purposes, if copies of nonexempt public records are requested for commercial purposes, the public agency may establish a reasonable fee.
    (b) The public agency from which copies of nonexempt public records are requested for a commercial purpose may require a certified statement from the requestor stating the commercial purpose for which they shall be used, and may require the requestor to enter into a contract with the agency. The contract shall permit use of the public records for the stated commercial
    purpose for a specified fee.
    (c) The fee provided for in subsection (a) of this section may be based on one or both of the following:
    1. Cost to the public agency of media, mechanical processing, and staff required to produce a copy of the public record or records;
    2. Cost to the public agency of the creation, purchase, or other acquisition of the public records.
    (5) It shall be unlawful for a person to obtain a copy of any part of a public record for a:
    (a) Commercial purpose, without stating the commercial purpose, if a certified statement from the requestor was required by the public agency pursuant to subsection (4)(b) of this section; or
    (b) Commercial purpose, if the person uses or knowingly allows the use of the public record for a different commercial purpose; or
    (c) Noncommercial purpose, if the person uses or knowingly allows the use of the public record for a commercial purpose. A newspaper, periodical, radio or television station shall not be held to have used or knowingly allowed the use of the public record for a commercial purpose merely because of its publication or broadcast, unless it has also given its express permission for that commercial use.
    (6) Online access to public records in electronic form, as provided under this section, may be provided and made available at the discretion of the public agency. If a party wishes to access public records by electronic means and the public agency agrees to provide online access, a public agency may require that the party enter into a contract, license, or other agreement with the agency, and may charge fees for these agreements. Fees shall not exceed:
    (a) The cost of physical connection to the system and reasonable cost of computer time access charges; and
    (b) If the records are requested for a commercial purpose, a reasonable fee based on the factors set forth in subsection (4) of this section.

    And...

    61.884 Person's access to record relating to him.
    Any person shall have access to any public record relating to him or in which he is mentioned by name, upon presentation of appropriate identification, subject to the provisions of KRS 61.878.

    KRS 61.878 and 61.880 may also be of use but are rather long to post here. These have to do with records that can be denied to you for copy, and how to handle a denial of records that are not prohibited under state law from being copied. I would print all of these out and take them with you when you go to submit your request.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 09-01-2012 at 10:16 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  16. #16
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    This is direct quotation from the uniform citation:

    Above came through a traffic safety checkpoint at the Ledbetter bridge. Above had a handgun in plain view on the center console. Above was then ordered out of the vehicle to secure the weapon. Above was then directed to a secondary location to continue checking the vehicle. Above was upset with this and was speaking to Lt. White, U/100. Above squared off against him and pointed his finger in Lt. White's face placing Lt. White in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury. Above was then told to put his hands on the car. He continued to be argumentative and irate. Above was placed in handcuffs for safety. Above was told that he was detained and continued to argue in public in a loud manner that he was arrested. Above was creating public alarm which served no legitimate purpose.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    This is direct quotation from the uniform citation:

    Above came through a traffic safety checkpoint at the Ledbetter bridge. Above had a handgun in plain view on the center console. Above was then ordered out of the vehicle to secure the weapon. Above was then directed to a secondary location to continue checking the vehicle. Above was upset with this and was speaking to Lt. White, U/100. Above squared off against him and pointed his finger in Lt. White's face placing Lt. White in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury. Above was then told to put his hands on the car. He continued to be argumentative and irate. Above was placed in handcuffs for safety. Above was told that he was detained and continued to argue in public in a loud manner that he was arrested. Above was creating public alarm which served no legitimate purpose.
    HAHA, yea nice try. This will never fly. If a prosecutor will actually try to prosecute this I would be shocked. You did nothing wrong. You can point all you want, and you can also raise your voice. It seems to me everything you have done has been proven constitutional by the SCOTUS in several different cases. The report itself shows they violated your rights and law. "Above had a handgun in plain view on the center console. Above was then ordered out of the vehicle TO SECURE THE WEAPON. Above was then directed to a secondary location to CONTINUE CHECKING THE VEHICLE."

    They have already admitted the firearm was in plain view! They did not mention anything about you being suspected of a crime, so asking you to exit your vehicle so they could secure your firearm at DUI CHECKPOINT is a big NONO! The real winner is they directed you to a different location so THEY COULD CONTINUE TO SEARCH YOUR VEHICLE! There is nothing in this report that states you were being arrested for a crime, or that they had PC to arrest for a crime, and being as you did not give permission to search, they have violated your Fourth Amendment rights, and your rights under the Kentucky constitution. You need to secure that citation like it is a million bucks! In their own words they have signed their own admission of guilt!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 09-01-2012 at 10:28 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  18. #18
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I think trying to keep officers from sh!tting on your rights (more) if a very legit purpose. I don't think they have a legitimate case against you, now they will try to strong arm you into letting it die. They'll say that they'll drop the charges as long as you leave it be (they will), but if you push the issue then they will charge you.

    I so go for it, of course though, I wouldn't be the one spending time in jail if something went south.

    By any chance did you have a recorder rolling?
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I think trying to keep officers from sh!tting on your rights (more) if a very legit purpose. I don't think they have a legitimate case against you, now they will try to strong arm you into letting it die. They'll say that they'll drop the charges as long as you leave it be (they will), but if you push the issue then they will charge you.

    I so go for it, of course though, I wouldn't be the one spending time in jail if something went south.

    By any chance did you have a recorder rolling?
    I would bet the charges are dropped regardless. The officers report states that the ONLY reason he was taken from his vehicle was because a firearm was spotted in plain view. This is also the reason they searched his gun, and why they CONTINUED TO SEARCH HIS VEHICLE. He didn't do anything wrong, and his actions ARE protected. This entire stop was illegal and unconstitutional, and a prosecutor will know that immediately. He was falsely charged, and detained on false pretenses. This is a money maker for Charley, and a case that could show KY leo's that seem bent on illegally refusing us our rights that they need to follow the law!

    If it wasn't for the officer's illegal actions, Charley never would have raised his voice or pointed his finger. If these cops were following the law they would have asked for his DL, reviewed it and told him to have a good day. Their false detainment and unconstitutional search is what caused this event, not anything Charley did. Charley was within his rights, the cops were not.

    I can see the officer on the stand now:
    Prosecutor: Now why did you stop and detain Mr. ____?
    Officer: Because I spotted a firearm in plain sight setting on the console of his vehicle.
    P: Thank you.
    Defense Attorney: You detained Mr.____ because you spotted a firearm in plain sight setting on his console at a DUI checkpoint and after he allowed you to inspect his DL?
    Officer: Yes.
    DA: Could you please tell the jury what KRS makes carrying a firearm in plain sight in ones vehicle a crime? - Has all relevant paperwork admitted as documentation to show the jury, including the relevant KRS, and web-site information from the KSP's own web-site.
    Officer: Uhhh, wellll.., Uhh, Ohhhh....
    DA: Can you please tell me what KRS allowed you to continue to detain Mr._____ after he showed you his DL and you realized it was not expired and his registration was good?
    Officer: UUhhh, ooohhhh, uuummmm....
    DA: Could you please tell the jury what KRS allowed you to detain Mr.______ against his will, seize and search his firearm, and continue to search his vehicle without his permission, and what your RAS was that led you to believe he was violating said statute? - Again, he shows all documentation, including KRS 237.104, and relevant case law, especially the Holland case.
    Officer: UUHHHH OOOHHHH.
    DA: Since you did not have any legal right to detain Mr.______ or seize his firearm, or search it, or search his vehicle, why did you find it neccessary to deprive him of his Fourth Amendment rights and those protected by the Kentucky constitution?
    Officer: UUUhhhh OOhhh.
    DA: Is it true it was your illegal actions that made Mr._______ express his grievances concerning your actions, and without your illegal actions and detainment and search, this never would have happened?
    Officer: UUUhhh OOOHhh.
    DA: Tells the jury that Mr.______'s actions were not a violation of law, but rather PROTECTED actions under the First Amendment, and that it was the officers illegal and unconstitutional actions that made him redress his grievances. And I am sure he will have nothing more to ask!

    Open and closed! A prosecutor would be a fool to actually attempt to prosecute this.
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 09-01-2012 at 11:38 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Re: Arrested last night

    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    This is direct quotation from the uniform citation:

    Above came through a traffic safety checkpoint at the Ledbetter bridge. Above had a handgun in plain view on the center console. Above was then ordered out of the vehicle to secure the weapon. Above was then directed to a secondary location to continue checking the vehicle. Above was upset with this and was speaking to Lt. White, U/100. Above squared off against him and pointed his finger in Lt. White's face placing Lt. White in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury. Above was then told to put his hands on the car. He continued to be argumentative and irate. Above was placed in handcuffs for safety. Above was told that he was detained and continued to argue in public in a loud manner that he was arrested. Above was creating public alarm which served no legitimate purpose.
    Hahahaha... Where's Skid?...he knows all about finger pointing...


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  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    ...A prosecutor would be a fool to actually attempt to prosecute this.
    Yeah, but what's it going to cost the OP to get to the dismissal stage?

    I've seen repeated examples of a prosecutor running someone through "the system" just to show who's boss.

    And the individual's recourse? LOL!

  22. #22
    Regular Member hotrod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    This is direct quotation from the uniform citation:

    Above came through a traffic safety checkpoint at the Ledbetter bridge. Above had a handgun in plain view on the center console. Above was then ordered out of the vehicle to secure the weapon. Above was then directed to a secondary location to continue checking the vehicle. Above was upset with this and was speaking to Lt. White, U/100. Above squared off against him and pointed his finger in Lt. White's face placing Lt. White in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury. Above was then told to put his hands on the car. He continued to be argumentative and irate. Above was placed in handcuffs for safety. Above was told that he was detained and continued to argue in public in a loud manner that he was arrested. Above was creating public alarm which served no legitimate purpose.
    My problem is how are they going to explain why the secondary stop AFTER they seized a legal weapon. At a DUI checkpoint it is just that, a DUI checkpoint. If the subject does not meet certain criteria, he is to be allowed to proceed. A handgun in plain view is not RAS of anything. It is legal to carry and no reason to secure, detain or arrest. When you were ordered out, you were detained, again for what? I can not wrap my head around the arrest based on the complaint. Unless you were threatening to kick Lt. Whites backside how can they determined you sqaured off. I think this was a contempt of a state police officer complaint and nothing more. It is not illegal to be argumentative and irate.
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  23. #23
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    What a shame

    I hate to hear this... especially this close to home. Luckily I live under the control of the adjacent KSP post. It looks like the bridge is a popular spot!
    http://crittendenpress.blogspot.com/...at-bridge.html
    Brent White used to be a squared away trooper and a heck of a nice guy off duty. KSP was clearly in the wrong.

  24. #24
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    Also remember the custodian of KSP records is in Frankfort. That is where you request will go, then they will gather the information from the post and send it to you.

  25. #25
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    I need to file FOIA requests, but I really have no idea how to do that stuff.
    What these guys are telling you is correct...BUT I would call KSP first to see if they have their own FOIA form. I filed a FOIA with Mt. Sterling PD and Montgomery Co 911 and my self typed letter wasn't good enough for them.

    I had to fill out their FOIA form before they would release the information that I was requesting. Just hate for you to have to re-do your request.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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