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Thread: burningman BLM creates no gun zone on public roads 5 miles away from event

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    burningman BLM creates no gun zone on public roads 5 miles away from event

    LOOK AT THIS MAP!
    http://www.burningman.com/media/doc/..._order_map.pdf
    the shaded areas, including 3 public roads, far away from the event are now closed off to firearms
    with stiff federal fines/sentences if caught.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/blm-...ment-free-zone
    I live on 34 and must carry at work as a ranch hand and I have to drive through their dammed closure zone and risk arrest even though I am not going to the event and did not buy a ticket or agree to any of these obnoxious rules.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Can they legally do this? MAYBE inside the ticket-holders area, with the request of the event permitees, but to the areas open to the public? This is Nevada. Does the BLM have the authority to do this? If so, that means they have the authority to do it on all the lands that they manage in the state, Burning Man notwithstanding, and I don't think they have that authority.

    Who can we ask for them to cite their authority?

    Also, what is the penalty for violating this policy? Is the penalty for "weapon possession" the same as "use of a motorized vehicle"?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    ...I live on 34 and must carry at work as a ranch hand and I have to drive through their dammed closure zone...
    I think that is your "out." Since use of motorized vehicles is prohibited in the same areas as possession of weapons, you are de facto not in violation of possession of weapons if they are allowing you to drive through.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-02-2012 at 02:36 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    ...MAYBE inside the ticket-holders area, with the request of the event permitees, ...
    Now I wonder about this one, too. I heard that Burning Man is considered an actual town during its operation. If so, under the state's preemption law, they would have no more right to ban possession of firearms than does North Las Vegas, right?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    They allow people to go naked at this festival. CCing would be a challenge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Can they legally do this? MAYBE inside the ticket-holders area, with the request of the event permitees, but to the areas open to the public? This is Nevada. Does the BLM have the authority to do this? If so, that means they have the authority to do it on all the lands that they manage in the state, Burning Man notwithstanding, and I don't think they have that authority.

    Who can we ask for them to cite their authority?

    Also, what is the penalty for violating this policy? Is the penalty for "weapon possession" the same as "use of a motorized vehicle"?
    If the roads are on BLM owned lands, then I think it would be lawful for them to put up those restrictions under federal law. If the roads are owned and maintained by the State or county, then I don't think they have lawful authority to forbid weapons on those roads.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2276 View Post
    If the roads are on BLM owned lands, then I think it would be lawful for them to put up those restrictions under federal law. ...
    The BLM doesn't own anything. They administer some of the public lands.

    They happen to administer 67 percent of the land in Nevada. I don't see them having the authority to treat all of that as if we were driving through a military installation.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-02-2012 at 03:28 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The BLM doesn't own anything. They administer some of the public lands.

    They happen to administer 67 percent of the land in Nevada. I don't see them having the authority to treat all of that as if we were driving through a military installation.
    Who actually "owns" the land? Does the Fed. Government own it, and allow BLM to "administer" it, or does the State retain ownership of the actual land, but allow BLM to "administer" it?

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2276 View Post
    Who actually "owns" the land? Does the Fed. Government own it, and allow BLM to "administer" it, or does the State retain ownership of the actual land, but allow BLM to "administer" it?
    My memory is the US Constitution states that the Federal Government may own 10sq miles for the nation’s capital and military posts and magazines, period.

    My understanding is that the state of UT is working on legislation to take back their land from the feds. We need to do that here in NV as well. Kick the bastards out.

    I thought the federal law was that they are to follow state law and state law says they have no right to arbitrarily make gun laws.

    TBG
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    They allow people to go naked at this festival. CCing would be a challenge.
    CC = cavity carry

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    LOOK AT THIS MAP!
    http://www.burningman.com/media/doc/..._order_map.pdf
    the shaded areas, including 3 public roads, far away from the event are now closed off to firearms
    with stiff federal fines/sentences if caught.
    http://www.examiner.com/article/blm-...ment-free-zone
    I live on 34 and must carry at work as a ranch hand and I have to drive through their dammed closure zone and risk arrest even though I am not going to the event and did not buy a ticket or agree to any of these obnoxious rules.
    in your second link there is a quote "Proclaiming its authority under 43 CFR 8364.1., and issued by Gene Seidlitz, District Manager, Winnemucca District, the restriction notice declared “The possession of any weapon is prohibited except weapons within motor vehicles passing through the public closure area, without stopping, on the west or east playa roads.

    So i think you are safe
    http://washoecountygunrights.blogspot.com/

    *** I am NOT a Lawyer, and I DO NOT have any LEGAL EXPERIENCE OR QUALIFICATIONS ***

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    (c) In issuing orders pursuant to this section, the authorized officer shall publish them in the Federal Register.
    I wonder if they actually do this.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by john-in-reno View Post
    in your second link there is a quote "Proclaiming its authority under 43 CFR 8364.1., and issued by Gene Seidlitz, District Manager, Winnemucca District, the restriction notice declared “The possession of any weapon is prohibited except weapons within motor vehicles passing through the public closure area, without stopping, on the west or east playa roads.

    So i think you are safe
    just last week I stopped in the closure area and helped a stranded motorist, while open carrying ( she was from Cali and I could tell it made her nervous ) There is no sign indicating its closed off to gun owners. Its a county road ( county road 34 ) I have stopped there to shoot at coyotes, fix flat tires, attend to personal needs while far from a restroom, bird watch ( we have Golden Eagles up here ) always open carrying never having been warned I was in violation of the feds-don't they have to let people know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I wonder if they actually do this.
    Even if they do its like that scene in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy where they destroy earth while telling people it was posted and they should have known.

    I live here and wasn't told anything. Neither are the hunters who regularly hunt everything from yotes to wild turkey.

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    Considering the amount of illegal drugs consumed during the BM event, they are worried about non-attendees' firearms?

    mbogo

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Not possible. The sign said no illegal drugs were allowed.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    My memory is the US Constitution states that the Federal Government may own 10sq miles for the nation’s capital and military posts and magazines, period.

    My understanding is that the state of UT is working on legislation to take back their land from the feds. We need to do that here in NV as well. Kick the bastards out.

    I thought the federal law was that they are to follow state law and state law says they have no right to arbitrarily make gun laws.

    TBG
    That's my reading of the Constitution, as well; which is why I asked who has actual ownership. Ownership determines jurisdiction. Unless the State of Nevada, through its legislature, actually ceded the land to the federal government Nevada still retains ownership and control over the land.

    There are a few criminal cases in which federal prosecutors were barred from trying individuals for crimes in federal court. While the federal government actually occupied and used facilities on which crimes under federal law were committed, the federal district courts held that the accused could not be charged with violations under federal law nor tried in federal courts because the States had not formally ceded the land and facilities to the federal government. The States retained exclusive jurisdiction. Therefore, any prosecution and trial of the individuals would have to be brought by the State under its laws.

    In the matter at hand, I don't believe that the BLM restriction is valid or lawful. It should be an absolute defense to any arrest under federal law that the BLM has no jurisdiction to arrest, prosecute, or try State residents under federal law or in the federal courts.

    As for kicking the feds out, I think Utah has it right and Nevada should follow Utah's example.

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    See Nevada Revised Statutes, Title 26 - Public Lands.

    Specifically, NRS Chapter 328 - Federal Lands, Cession of State Jurisdiction:

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-328.html

    NRS 328.075 (Procedure; limits of federal jurisdiction) specifically states:
    Federal jurisdiction over land to which this State has not ceded its jurisdiction is limited to carrying out governmental purposes authorized by the Constitution of the United States, and federal jurisdiction over lands held for other purposes is limited to that exercisable by an ordinary proprietor under the laws of this State.
    Nevada has not ceded jurisdiction on any lands in the "Burning Man" event area.

    However, there may (or may not) be some sort of "Memorandum of Understanding" between the state and/or county(ies) and the federal BLM. (And who knows the legality of that.)

    Note there is actually very little land in Nevada wherein the state has ceded jurisdiction to the Feds.

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    I have no idea about the closures and how it works but I will tell you Burningman is a special gathering of individuals.
    I wonder because we have several events there every year that require permits etc and our vendors have to pay BLM fees (TAXES) on sales. I'm not sure exactly what control we exercise over the land as a permit holder. BLM shows up and actually looks to see how many attendees we have and will occasionally ask about non permitted vehicles but overall the rangers are nice guys and use the permit as an excuse to head over and watch the event.
    I have been out there at the end of BM and used 12 mile to acces the event to converse with friends of the Black Rock and BLM about the actual location and to gather intel due to our event following it. I was stopped by Pershing County Sheriff upon leaving the area. I have to admit being in my desert truck I thought about leaving him in the dust but it was an uneventful stop he thought I was sneaking out avoiding the traffic on 8 mile.

    So Chrs will you be joining us on the playa in a couple of weeks for some world class rocketry? We always welcome the OC although some Bay Area people are still nervous
    they are getting better. If you do be sure to look me up just find the yellow Hummer H1 and say hi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunrunner1911 View Post
    So Chrs will you be joining us on the playa in a couple of weeks for some world class rocketry? We always welcome the OC although some Bay Area people are still nervous
    they are getting better. If you do be sure to look me up just find the yellow Hummer H1 and say hi.
    PLEASE send me some info......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Yes, I am serious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunrunner1911 View Post
    I have no idea about the closures and how it works but I will tell you Burningman is a special gathering of individuals.
    he thought I was sneaking out avoiding the traffic on 8 mile.

    So Chrs will you be joining us on the playa in a couple of weeks for some world class rocketry? We always welcome the OC although some Bay Area people are still nervous
    they are getting better. If you do be sure to look me up just find the yellow Hummer H1 and say hi.

    according to the map we are supposed to be able to use the playa public roads. ....

    Thanks for the rocket invite! I will certainly try to meet ya, when is it happening?
    A year or two ago there was a hippie girl I was talking to in Gerlach when the rocket stuff was happening-she pointed at the sky asking "whats that"

    I told her it was the start of ww3 and it was a "ballistic nuclear missile" she believed for a few minutes too.

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    I just found the link and info to AeroPac. Is that what you are talking about? If I understand correctly, us non-members are welcome to view? I plan to come up from Fallon for the Saturday, MAYBE camping with my son. Yes, OC.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    So BLM can just make gun free zones wherever they want? I agree, kick BLM out of NV. If burning man means converting public land into a place where you go to jail for having a gun, then I say get rid of Burning Man if we can't get rid of BLM. Burning Man is a cool event, but not worth allowing federal gun bans in our state for. I don't care what the owners of a private or event rented property set as far as there rules, so long as it is merely an issue of being asked to leave the property. Being sent behind bars or facing fines to the government for crossing an imaginary line, that is intolerable.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 09-09-2012 at 12:51 PM.

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