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Motorcycles

sirpuma

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Nov 1, 2007
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905
Location
Deer Park, Washington, USA
So what is the consensus? I know the RCW says that to carry loaded IN a vehicle you need the CPL. For those that ride and those that have studied the laws or had encounters: is a CPL required to OC loaded ON a motorcycle?

I tried a search and came up empty. May have been my search method but I didn't spot anything right away that helped.
 

slapmonkay

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Last edited:

MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
Yes, a motorcycle is a vehicle.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/ I believe I searched for [vehicle defined].

RCW 46.04.330 Motorcycle.
"Motorcycle" means a motor vehicle designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, on which the driver:

(1) Rides on a seat or saddle and the motor vehicle is designed to be steered with a handlebar; or

(2) Rides on a seat in a partially or completely enclosed seating area that is equipped with safety belts and the motor vehicle is designed to be steered with a steering wheel.


RCW 46.04.670 Vehicle.
"Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, including bicycles.

ETA: sorry, I see I misunderstood the question slightly. IMO, going by the definition of vehicle, it doesn't matter whether you're actually in a vehicle, or only on it.
 
Last edited:

Rob G

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May 31, 2012
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11
Location
Tacoma
Until recently, I have always carried year round on my bike with a shoulder holster, with my gun out of view, because I didn't have a comfortable belt holster.

Now that I have one that works great with me and my bucket seat, I ride OC. To date, no issues whatsoever and have been seen by numerous LEO's around the state. I also know and have seen other bikers who also OC on their bikes and they have reported no issues as well.

I do have a CPL so either way, I'm legal. It's only $55 or so. Cheap insurance as I see it.
 

slapmonkay

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How many people ride bicycles while carrying? Do you carry your cpl? A bicycle is considered a vehicle now
I feel the legislative intent was not to require a cpl for all vehicles but rather to address the issue of being inside a vehicle which since your inside something it could arguably makes your carry partially concealed from the out side. This is not the case if you ride on it.

Someone was looking at getting an AGO, any update on this?
 

MSG Laigaie

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Jan 10, 2011
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Philipsburg, Montana
pick up truck?

This thread brought this thought........ What about the bed of a pick up truck? It is not illegal in Washington to do this, but would you need a CPL as in the motorcycle problem. So many variables, it is a tricky world.
 

sirpuma

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Deer Park, Washington, USA
My OPINION (IANAL) is that if your hip is obscured from view during normal driving from outside the vehicle then you need a CPL. The law does say INSIDE a vehicle, so that would include inside a truck bed.
 

Difdi

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Mar 2, 2010
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Seattle, Washington, USA
This thread brought this thought........ What about the bed of a pick up truck? It is not illegal in Washington to do this, but would you need a CPL as in the motorcycle problem. So many variables, it is a tricky world.

Not all that tricky. If riding in the bed of a pickup truck removed the need for a CPL for loaded carry, then so would riding in the cargo area of a van, the passenger area of a bus, the back seat of a car or in a motorcycle sidecar.

The law prohibits loaded carry in a vehicle without a CPL (or other exemption). It doesn't specify only drivers.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
Not all that tricky. If riding in the bed of a pickup truck removed the need for a CPL for loaded carry, then so would riding in the cargo area of a van, the passenger area of a bus, the back seat of a car or in a motorcycle sidecar.

The law prohibits loaded carry in a vehicle without a CPL (or other exemption). It doesn't specify only drivers.

The sarge was referring to being inside. All your examples are enclosed, and not open as his was.

I feel the intent of the law was the concealing effect of being inside a vehicle. I don't test it thought I have my CPL in my bike bag when I OC while on the motorcycle.
 

sirpuma

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Deer Park, Washington, USA
The sarge was referring to being inside. All your examples are enclosed, and not open as his was.

I feel the intent of the law was the concealing effect of being inside a vehicle. I don't test it thought I have my CPL in my bike bag when I OC while on the motorcycle.

Yes, but if you sit down in the bed of a pickup your top half third may be exposed but the bottom two thirds would be hidden, especially if it's a large truck or high up. The point of the law is that when IN a vehicle your openly carried firearm is now concealed from public view. Being inside the bed of a truck is still INSIDE. If you rode on the roof, then you wouldn't be inside, but then again you wouldn't be safe, lol. But when ON a motorcycle your openly carried sidearm is now in plain view. And the law is written INSIDE and doesn't include ON. You don't ride INSIDE a motorcycle. Though you would with a side car. I have my CPL so it's no biggie, but not everyone has one and there are many riders who may want to carry.
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

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Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
A few months ago I e-mailed the AG about this because it was being discussed a lot and I had plans of getting a motorcycle. Well, I did get a response, but it was less than helpful. I actually cleared it out of my e-mail one day because it didn't really show one way or the other. I described the question as best I could. I mentioned the problem with "On" and "In". I mentioned "Open Carry" rather than "Concealed Carry". Well, their answer only regarding concealed carry since they let me know that Concealing on a motorcycle requires a CPL. Not really helpful to this argument, but maybe someone else can e-mail them with a more articulate, detailed question so that they will answer the actual question asked rather than stating what we all already know...
 

1245A Defender

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Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
well,,,

you need a license to ride on the street,,,
but they cant stop you just to check that you have one.

you need an endorcement to ride a motorcycle,,,
but they cant stop you just to check that you have one.

you need a CPL to carry a concealled pistol,,,
but they cant stop you just to see if you are carrying a pistol, then demand your CPL.

you need a CPL to carry loaded "In" a vehicle,,,
but you arent "in" a vehicle.

if you ride by,,, and they see your open carried side arm,,,
how can they conclude that your side arm is concealled?

Also when I ride my motorcycle I am covered by 9.41.060 (8),
in my mind, it is just like going for a ride on my iron horse!
 

EMNofSeattle

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Aug 7, 2012
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S. Kitsap, Washington state
Well in WA state AGOs are only issued really at the request prosecuting attorneys or state elected officials.

The AG cannot issue an opinion for private citizens
http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/default.aspx

However, I wonder if the Kitsap PA would request an AGO if a law enforcement official requested one, and if yes I think we can always email Chief Townsend from Port Orchard and see if he would send a request up the chain, since he, along with the PO mayor, seem to be at least OC friendly.

just a thought
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
To get any real response we need to have a Representative email them the question.

The last time I tried to ask the AG a question, I got a form letter back stating they only work for the people, and therefore would not answer my question.

Apparently the irony escaped them.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
The last time I tried to ask the AG a question, I got a form letter back stating they only work for the people, and therefore would not answer my question.

Apparently the irony escaped them.

That's why you elect Representatives. That, in itself, is a good reason to be more cautious when voting for one.

Yes, the AG works for the people----through their elected Representatives. Any other way would lead to total gridlock in the office and nobody's interests would be served.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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16,674
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Whatcom County
Yes, but if you sit down in the bed of a pickup your top half third may be exposed but the bottom two thirds would be hidden, especially if it's a large truck or high up. The point of the law is that when IN a vehicle your openly carried firearm is now concealed from public view. Being inside the bed of a truck is still INSIDE. If you rode on the roof, then you wouldn't be inside, but then again you wouldn't be safe, lol. But when ON a motorcycle your openly carried sidearm is now in plain view. And the law is written INSIDE and doesn't include ON. You don't ride INSIDE a motorcycle. Though you would with a side car. I have my CPL so it's no biggie, but not everyone has one and there are many riders who may want to carry.

Not the clarification I was making . Never referred to it as Inside the bed of a truck myself, unless there's a canopy or enclosure, I do say in the bed of the truck. But do understand what you are saying.

But by that logic you would need one to sit with strong side to the wall in a booth at a restaurant because then it would be concealed from view. I wouldn't put it past some in the "justice" system to try to construe it that way either.
 
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Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
you folks that wrote letters.... PM me a copy of what you are asking and let me see what I can do. I have a way in but can't use it too much.

Bill
 
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