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Thread: LEO Awareness Campaign

  1. #1
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    LEO Awareness Campaign

    I'm just spitballing here. It's an idea I've had for awhile and not seen discussed before or maybe I just missed the discussion. Let's face it, I think we all know not all LEO's are bad. Most are just trying to do their job as they understand it and it's a pretty thankless job. That being said, is it possible for us to start some sort of educational program? At least on gun rights? Let some of the more well read and conversant of us go around to the various PD's and hold a class on just what the law is and how it affects both them and us, the legally carrying citizen?

    The bulletin that Cincinnati put out informing their officers of what was and was not legal in regards to open carry was a large step for them. Maybe we can bring something like that to Kentucky departments? I know a lot of people will say, "It's not our job to inform cops, they should already be aware!" Well, that my be the case but by and large they are not. If we can be seen as a group as being pro-active in our education program it can't hurt right?

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    Many cops know the laws regarding gun issues -- they just feel that for their own safety, they want to disarm us.

    And those cops who do not know the laws clearly don't want to know or don't care; otherwise they would know.
    It takes about 10 minutes to learn the gun laws for a state and locality...plus they have access to free lawyers to speak to as well.

    Most cops say that they support the 2nd amendment but they still want to disarm when a contact is made (there are exceptions of course - especially when its one on one -- get three on one and your gun is almost always going to be taken).

    You may wish to contact the various academies to effect education...but they will ignore you most likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Many cops know the laws regarding gun issues -- they just feel that for their own safety, they want to disarm us.

    And those cops who do not know the laws clearly don't want to know or don't care; otherwise they would know.
    It takes about 10 minutes to learn the gun laws for a state and locality...plus they have access to free lawyers to speak to as well.

    Most cops say that they support the 2nd amendment but they still want to disarm when a contact is made (there are exceptions of course - especially when its one on one -- get three on one and your gun is almost always going to be taken).

    You may wish to contact the various academies to effect education...but they will ignore you most likely.
    I am a LEO and I agree with you. There are some that know, some that don't care and some that know and don't care. However, I believe that if a PD sets forth a policy and training then PO's will be accountable whether they like it or not. The policy and procedures of a PD are the guidelines that every PO has to follow. If they don't a PO can be subject to disciplinary action. I know that it's not the only thing that has to happen but I think it's a start.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESGTINCT View Post
    I am a LEO and I agree with you. There are some that know, some that don't care and some that know and don't care. However, I believe that if a PD sets forth a policy and training then PO's will be accountable whether they like it or not. The policy and procedures of a PD are the guidelines that every PO has to follow. If they don't a PO can be subject to disciplinary action. I know that it's not the only thing that has to happen but I think it's a start.
    There's even a larger atrocity....the cops that know this takes place and look away. Acknowledging, here, what is obvious is doing nothing other than raising your post count. Take your discoveries to those who violate rights. I'll cheer you on and bring you sammiches. You just name the time and place you are going to take your thin blue line to task. I don't need your empathy or sympathy. I need you to confront your own before one side or the other starts having real casualties.
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESGTINCT;1819922
    SNIP/ [COLOR="#FF0000"
    I believe that if a PD sets forth a policy and training then PO's will be accountable whether they like it or not. The policy and procedures of a PD are the guidelines that every PO has to follow. If they don't a PO can be subject to disciplinary action. I know that it's not the only thing that has to happen but I think it's a start.[/COLOR]
    Nice speech, but your audience can't really act on any of it, can they? Take this to your people. Tell us where you are conducting this re-education short course so we can offer you support and encouragement.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    It would be a legal liability on their part to have people without law degrees/licenses come in to advise them on how to interpret and follow the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langzaiguy View Post
    It would be a legal liability on their part to have people without law degrees/licenses come in to advise them on how to interpret and follow the law.
    Fine, then lets find a way to make them educate their PO's on proper procedure. Help me find ways to make something like this work, rather than showing me all the ways it can't be done. Do we need to fight to give the current rulings more teeth? Get some sort of addition saying PO's must have x hours of education on firearm laws. If so, how?

    PS: I'd much rather be proactive than reactive. Most of us OC carrying recorders and pamphlets. Hell, I made one of the pamphlets because we feel like, sooner or later we're going to be harassed by LEO's. Simplest solution in my mind is to make sure they're educated to begin with. Sure, some will still cause problems you get Aholes in any group of people including us. The more we educate the fewer there are likely to be, it also gives us a leg up in any confrontation if we /know/ they received X hours of training by law.
    Last edited by Sundiver; 09-03-2012 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    There's even a larger atrocity....the cops that know this takes place and look away. Acknowledging, here, what is obvious is doing nothing other than raising your post count. Take your discoveries to those who violate rights. I'll cheer you on and bring you sammiches. You just name the time and place you are going to take your thin blue line to task. I don't need your empathy or sympathy. I need you to confront your own before one side or the other starts having real casualties.
    Well, you certainly don't make it easy for someone in my position to help someone in your position. I never conveyed empathy or sympathy just a thought so not only don't you need it, you don't have it. I am just one person with very little authority in my large department. You don't know me and don't have any idea what it is to be a LEO, so don't judge me with your offensive post. By the way I have confronted many of my fellow LEO's about this and I don't know what you mean about real casualties. Is that a physical threat? Respect is a two way street and you have shown me none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Nice speech, but your audience can't really act on any of it, can they? Take this to your people. Tell us where you are conducting this re-education short course so we can offer you support and encouragement.
    Like I said, your sarcastic remarks like, "Nice speech" does not want to make me change things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LESGTINCT View Post
    Well, you certainly don't make it easy for someone in my position to help someone in your position. I never conveyed empathy or sympathy just a thought so not only don't you need it, you don't have it. I am just one person with very little authority in my large department. You don't know me and don't have any idea what it is to be a LEO, so don't judge me with your offensive post. By the way I have confronted many of my fellow LEO's about this and I don't know what you mean about real casualties. Is that a physical threat? Respect is a two way street and you have shown me none.
    Well, Sir. You're more than welcome in this thread at least. I worked for one of the top five major metropolitan police departments for a decade. Most of my family and extended family are LEO's. Yes, at least one of them is a real power tripping ahole. The others are all decent people trying to do a job. Would they see someone walking down the street with a pistol strapped on as a liability? Most likely. Again, I think education is the key. Showing them not only is it legal but we as a group tend to be level headed, observant and not vigilantes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundiver View Post
    Well, Sir. You're more than welcome in this thread at least. I worked for one of the top five major metropolitan police departments for a decade. Most of my family and extended family are LEO's. Yes, at least one of them is a real power tripping ahole. The others are all decent people trying to do a job. Would they see someone walking down the street with a pistol strapped on as a liability? Most likely. Again, I think education is the key. Showing them not only is it legal but we as a group tend to be level headed, observant and not vigilantes.
    Thank you. I thought I was trying to help but all I got was a verbal beating and I agree with them!

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LESGTINCT View Post
    Well, you certainly don't make it easy for someone in my position to help someone in your position. I never conveyed empathy or sympathy just a thought so not only don't you need it, you don't have it. I am just one person with very little authority in my large department. You don't know me and don't have any idea what it is to be a LEO, so don't judge me with your offensive post. By the way I have confronted many of my fellow LEO's about this and I don't know what you mean about real casualties. Is that a physical threat? Respect is a two way street and you have shown me none.

    No physical threat, an acknowledgement of a reality. When a large group of armed, aggressive and unaccountable people engage in separating a select few armed individuals from the security of witnesses with what appears to be no other intent than to force them into submission.....there could be problems. I can't afford to be anything other than realistic about that.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    [QUOTE=Fuller Malarkey;1819946]No physical threat, an acknowledgement of a reality. When a large group of armed, aggressive and unaccountable people engage in separating a select few armed individuals from the security of witnesses with what appears to be no other intent than to force them into submission.....there could be problems. I can't afford to be anything other than realistic about that.[/QUO

    What kind of problems? Hmmm, you are being very vague. Is it on purpose? I think so and it is obvious what you are trying to say. I would be sure of yourself before making such a statements based on "what appears to be".

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    a large group of armed, aggressive and unaccountable people engage in separating a select few armed individuals from the security of witnesses with what appears to be no other intent than to force them into submission.....
    So you are saying that you are OK with this?

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    Why is an outsider threatening a cop in our forum? Why is an admitted cop baiting and luring people within our forum? And where is the more outspoken Kentuckians to show these numbskulls how we handle things?

    LESGTINCT: So you're a LEO, who cares? Doesn't automatically give you the right to flame, and lure people into bashing you, then whining and crying when someone urinates in your face. Sit down, relax, and take a new approach. Cop or not, you're no different than anyone else and will be treated the same.

    Fuller: If you cannot be nice and learn when someone is baiting you to attack them, then you don't need to be online. period. Take a chill pill, sit back, and keep a cool head. You're just as guilty as the Cop. Consider him a borderline Anti, and a possible troll, don't give him a reason to spread hate for our community. Just the same, don't spread hatred in our sub-forum, keep it in your own or the social lounge trollfest.

    Sundiver; I like you're Idea, if we can get ahold of KC3, maybe we can have a state-wide donation drive to help pay for them to educate cops? Gutshot would be a great keystone to start with on that with KC3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    ...Why is an admitted cop baiting and luring people within our forum?...
    I must have missed that post...? What in the world are you referring to?


    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    ...if we can get ahold of KC3, maybe we can have a state-wide donation drive to help pay for them to educate cops? Gutshot would be a great keystone to start with on that with KC3.
    Good luck with that. I've offered to help with various KY OC initiatives with KC3 involvement/approval/blessing and they went nowhere.

    My offer still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LESGTINCT View Post
    Well, you certainly don't make it easy for someone in my position to help someone in your position. I never conveyed empathy or sympathy just a thought so not only don't you need it, you don't have it. I am just one person with very little authority in my large department. You don't know me and don't have any idea what it is to be a LEO, so don't judge me with your offensive post. By the way I have confronted many of my fellow LEO's about this and I don't know what you mean about real casualties. Is that a physical threat? Respect is a two way street and you have shown me none.
    Please overlook the jack-hole's that spout off without thinking about what they're saying. The vast majority of law abiding citizen's and LE get along just fine, granted there are the times when things go worng and issues arise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    Please overlook the jack-hole's that spout off without thinking about what they're saying. The vast majority of law abiding citizen's and LE get along just fine, granted there are the times when things go worng and issues arise.
    And the jack-holes that spout off when they DO think about what they're saying.

    LESGTINCT, don't run off because you don't uniformly find love and kisses here, but understand that at least some people here have come by their feelings because of experience.

    Then again, there are others who simply salivate when a bell rings.
    Last edited by BB62; 09-04-2012 at 12:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neuroblades View Post
    Please overlook the jack-hole's that spout off without thinking about what they're saying. The vast majority of law abiding citizen's and LE get along just fine, granted there are the times when things go worng and issues arise.
    Not that I have a dog in this fight, but I'm still trying to find what the LEO said that got this uproar going. Maybe some one can point out what he said that got some on here upset. The way I read it he agreed with us on these issues.

    Some have made the comment to him that he should fix the "bad LEO's" but wouldn't that be like him saying that we need to fix the "bad citizens"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Why is an outsider threatening a cop in our forum? Why is an admitted cop baiting and luring people within our forum? And where is the more outspoken Kentuckians to show these numbskulls how we handle things?

    LESGTINCT: So you're a LEO, who cares? Doesn't automatically give you the right to flame, and lure people into bashing you, then whining and crying when someone urinates in your face. Sit down, relax, and take a new approach. Cop or not, you're no different than anyone else and will be treated the same.

    Fuller: If you cannot be nice and learn when someone is baiting you to attack them, then you don't need to be online. period. Take a chill pill, sit back, and keep a cool head. You're just as guilty as the Cop. Consider him a borderline Anti, and a possible troll, don't give him a reason to spread hate for our community. Just the same, don't spread hatred in our sub-forum, keep it in your own or the social lounge trollfest.

    Sundiver; I like you're Idea, if we can get ahold of KC3, maybe we can have a state-wide donation drive to help pay for them to educate cops? Gutshot would be a great keystone to start with on that with KC3.
    I had NO intent to lure ANYONE! I am genuinely trying to help. Again, you judge me. I am not whining or crying about anything. I was however attacked for nothing as you are doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Not that I have a dog in this fight, but I'm still trying to find what the LEO said that got this uproar going. Maybe some one can point out what he said that got some on here upset. The way I read it he agreed with us on these issues.

    Some have made the comment to him that he should fix the "bad LEO's" but wouldn't that be like him saying that we need to fix the "bad citizens"?
    When you find out, please let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    And the jack-holes that spout off when they DO think about what they're saying.

    LESGTINCT, don't run off because you don't uniformly find love and kisses here, but understand that at least some people here have come by their feelings because of experience.

    Then again, there are others who simply salivate when a bell rings.
    I don't plan on running off. Just as I shouldn't treat/judge everyone I come in contact with the same feelings because they were a-holes, people in this forum shouldn't either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LESGTINCT View Post
    I don't plan on running off. Just as I shouldn't treat/judge everyone I come in contact with the same feelings because they were a-holes, people in this forum shouldn't either.
    Agreed.

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    [QUOTE=LESGTINCT;1819957]
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    No physical threat, an acknowledgement of a reality. When a large group of armed, aggressive and unaccountable people engage in separating a select few armed individuals from the security of witnesses with what appears to be no other intent than to force them into submission.....there could be problems. I can't afford to be anything other than realistic about that.[/QUO

    What kind of problems? Hmmm, you are being very vague. Is it on purpose? I think so and it is obvious what you are trying to say. I would be sure of yourself before making such a statements based on "what appears to be".
    To the contrary. I am very direct, and it is that directness that you don't care for. I am more than adequately articulate, and equally deliberate. I said what I meant and meant what I said. Attempting to change the context of my statements is disingenuous at the least. There is nothing ambiguous in my posts. They can be taken at face value. Or they can be taken out of context.


    What the officer has displayed here is a logical fallacy, an accusation / question with a false presupposition. [you are being very vague. Is it on purpose? I think so and it is obvious what you are trying to say. I would be sure of yourself before making such a statements based on "what appears to be".] It's a loaded question, one of the "gotchas" used by police. It's a common ploy, used daily by sales people to close sales. "Will you be using cash or credit"....will cut to the chase and confirm a sale is taking place and closing, or more needs to be done to compel a decision and overcome objections to the sale. It has some shame based origins, like if a police officer were to walk into a room of people and loudly say "are you molesting that child?" with two intentions: One, to discredit the person they addressed and trusting instinct will put the accused on the defense. And two, the accuser manipulates any unwanted attention from themselves, and escapes answering hard to answer questions.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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