Possession in public park (ozaukee county/saukville)

jpoke5 · Sep 3, 2012

Am I to understand that if I have a cc permit that open/concealed Possession in public park is ok???

http://www.ecode360.com/9826562?highlight=firearms,firearm#9826562

[Amended 1-19-2010 by Ord. No. 704; 11-1-2011 by Ord. No. 721]

A. Discharge. No person other than an authorized police officer shall discharge any firearm within the Village, except that the Board may issue permits to an organized gun club to engage in target practice within the Village at times and places designated by the Chief of Police. This subsection does not apply and may not be enforced if the actor’s conduct was justified or, had it been subject to a criminal penalty, would have been subject to a defense described in § 939.45, Wis. Stats.

B. Possession in public park. No person shall have in his or her possession or under his or her control a firearm on land located within a public park unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. This subsection does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee, as defined in § 175.60(1), Wis. Stats., if the firearm is a weapon as defined in § 175.60(1)(j), Wis. Stats., or to a law enforcement officer, a qualified out-of-state law enforcement officer, or a former officer as defined in and subject to the conditions contained in § 941.23, Wis. Stats.

Horseman · Sep 3, 2012

jpoke5 said:
Am I to understand that if I have a cc permit that open/concealed Possession in public park is ok???

http://www.ecode360.com/9826562?highlight=firearms,firearm#9826562

Yes, but watch in case individual buildings are posted (like the restrooms). Carry on.

Mike · Sep 3, 2012

Wisconsin state law preempts localities generally from enacting gun carry bans; this park carry ban on non-permit holders is arguably preempted.

MKEgal · Sep 3, 2012

Am I to understand that if I have a cc permit that open/concealed Possession in public park is ok???

The short answer is yes. Here are the laws supporting that.

29.089 (2)

(2) Except as provided in sub. (3), no person may have in his or her possession or under his or her control a firearm on land located in state parks or state fish hatcheries unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. This subsection does not apply to any of the following:

(d) A licensee ... or an out-of-state licensee ... if the firearm is a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm).

Effective 01JAN13 it changes:

(2) No person may have in his or her possession or under his or her control a firearm on land located in state fish hatcheries unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. This subsection does not apply to any of the following:

(d) A licensee ... or an out-of-state licensee ... if the firearm is a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm).

Notice the absence of "state parks" after the change...
Combine that with preemption, and after the first of the year anyone will be legal to carry in any park.
(So municipalities that copied the new "gotta have a permission slip" law will have to waste taxpayer money by changing local law again.)

66.0409 (2)

Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.

range rat · Sep 3, 2012

jpoke5 said:
Am I to understand that if I have a cc permit that open/concealed Possession in public park is ok???

http://www.ecode360.com/9826562?highlight=firearms,firearm#9826562

[Amended 1-19-2010 by Ord. No. 704; 11-1-2011 by Ord. No. 721]

A. Discharge. No person other than an authorized police officer shall discharge any firearm within the Village, except that the Board may issue permits to an organized gun club to engage in target practice within the Village at times and places designated by the Chief of Police. This subsection does not apply and may not be enforced if the actor’s conduct was justified or, had it been subject to a criminal penalty, would have been subject to a defense described in § 939.45, Wis. Stats.

B. Possession in public park. No person shall have in his or her possession or under his or her control a firearm on land located within a public park unless the firearm is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. This subsection does not apply to a licensee or out-of-state licensee, as defined in § 175.60(1), Wis. Stats., if the firearm is a weapon as defined in § 175.60(1)(j), Wis. Stats., or to a law enforcement officer, a qualified out-of-state law enforcement officer, or a former officer as defined in and subject to the conditions contained in § 941.23, Wis. Stats.

mmmmm, ok the wife an I were up at Saint Francis Memorial Park for Labor day ( Sunday ) an it was Posted!! I haven't been by it to see if the size is still up, but It'll be on my honey do list for tuesday.

AaronS · Sep 3, 2012

I would have to say that if anyone were to have a issue in Ozaukee it would be me.

I carry a lot, and I go to the parks to fish a lot.
I do have the card, but I OC in the parks, and have never had any problems at all.
Most of the parks in Ozaukee still have very old signs up. The big sign tells me no weapons are allowed, but the laws have changed. The signs are no longer valid for the parks, thank God...
Carry on my friend.

Interceptor_Knight · Sep 6, 2012

Mike said:
Wisconsin state law preempts localities generally from enacting gun carry bans; this park carry ban on non-permit holders is arguably preempted.

Nobody has successfully argued in court that a municipal park ban is more stringent than a State Park ban. They are both parks and the bans are similar. You will definitely not beat the ride and you had better have a pile of cash to beat the rap.

Mike · Sep 6, 2012

Interceptor_Knight said:
Nobody has successfully argued in court that a municipal park ban is more stringent than a State Park ban. They are both parks and the bans are similar. You will definitely not beat the ride and you had better have a pile of cash to beat the rap.

Has anyone been unnsuccessful in such an argument? That is the correct question.

Interceptor_Knight · Sep 6, 2012

Mike said:
Has anyone been unnsuccessful in such an argument? That is the correct question.

A very relevant question is whether anyone has been advised by an attorney that such an argument is valid. I have mentioned before that I have been personally been advised to the contrary by multiple attorneys. As is always the case, consult your attorney before you do something which has a significant chance of you needing a legal defense for.

Fallschirjmäger · Sep 7, 2012

Just visiting from out of state... but this sounds quite similar to a situation recently encountered in Georgia. Georgia Code 16-11-173 prohibits any county or municipal organization from regulating firearms. Several counties and especially city/county parks were notified that they were not in compliance with state law and given the opportunity to change their ordinances before being sued in civil court.
If you would take a moment to look on the right side of this page you can see a short list of some of the municipalities that were affected. John R. Monroe, an attorney and member of GeorgiaCarry.com, was quite influential in obtaining a successful resolution to a problem quite similar to the one you're seeing in Wisconsin.

McX · Sep 7, 2012

i was kinda wondering about this topic myself. i went down to Petrifying Springs for a spring water run. i didnt see it posted anywhere, but hadn't been there in years, and there was heat lurking in the parkinglot, so i played it safe and left it in the car.

MKEgal · Sep 7, 2012

Fallschirmjäger said:
this sounds quite similar to a situation recently encountered in Georgia. Georgia Code 16-11-173 prohibits any county or municipal organization from regulating firearms.
...
John Monroe ... was quite influential in obtaining a successful resolution to a problem quite similar to the one you're seeing in Wisconsin.

John is a great guy. :exclaim:

WI law does not prohibit municipalities from regulating firearms (unfortunately).
WI law does prohibit municipalities from enforcing firearms laws which are more strict than state law.

Unless someone is hassled in a municipality by LEO trying to enforce a law which is more strict than state law, there's not really a problem to be solved.

The times I'm aware of that happening (incidents reported here on OCDO), the hassle-ee has informed the city board / attorney / chief LEO of the state's preemption law [after the hassling incident] and the ticket went away. Usually, the local ordinance was corrected.

It makes sense to me that localities would either not have their own laws, or would say "in case of firearm, reference state statute XXX.XX".

Possession in public park (ozaukee county/saukville)

jpoke5

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range rat

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