MKEgal
Regular Member
Why is it the new people generally ask this?XDM40 said:
Here's a thread with lots of general OC / rights-related info. Near the bottom of the first post is a link (red letters) to a video titled "don't talk with police". Watch it at least once. It's worth the 45min.
Here's a thread all about citizen-police interactions. This one centers on providing ID.
Some of the basic reasons why not:
1) generally, officers have no RAS (reasonable articulable suspicion) to detain a person
2) without RAS, it's illegal to interfere with the liberties of a citizen. Why would you help them commit crimes against you?
3) with or without RAS, all you're doing is providing them information that can & will be used against you. Why would you help them harm you? As Fallschirmjager said:
4) officers sometimes make up evidence, accusations, etc., & abuse their discretion to punish people for contempt of cop (as admitted by your friend). Why would you help them?
5) in many states, the requirement is only that you identify yourself.
6) unless you're doing an activity which requires you to carry a license (e.g. driving, cc) why would you carry it? If you don't have it, police can't forcibly take it from you (after handcuffing & searching, all illegally).
7) it's a waste of time.
Now... you can always choose to give up your right(s). But make sure it's a choice, rather than an automatic response to intimidation (including the sort of harassment that your friend admitted to).
Me, there are a couple cops I've had coffee with. But one is a friend & the others are people he brings along, & we're not talking business, just friendly chatting.
It makes their job easier.
Being detained (having my gov't-issued identity document held by the officer) does nothing to improve my day. That doesn't help me one bit.
And as Paul has pointed out, being detained for "just a few minutes" 10 times a day (once by every cop who sees you carrying), just long enough to run your ID & your gun, to prove you're not a felon, not wanted for anything, the gun isn't stolen, quickly adds up to a lot of lost time.
That's a chilling effect on RKBA, & that's illegal.
(BTW, would you put up with the demand for ID if all you were doing was playing in the park with your kids / nieces / nephews, & some cop said he wanted to be sure you weren't on the sex offender registry & prohibited from being around kids? I'm guessing not.)
So someone has to be just cooperative enough, but not too much so, or else they're suspicious?!?!
And he'd punish someone for exercising her/his civil rights?!?!
, again Here's a blog post I did about federal civil rights laws for 2A advocates. Might be a good thing for you & your friend to look over.
And another blog post I did, making a collection of sigs & legal quotes:
"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S.
“Selective prosecution when referring to the decision to prosecute in retaliation for the exercise of a constitutional right gives rise to an actionable right under the constitution."
County of Kenosha [WI] v. C. & S. Management, Inc.
"Stopping a car for no other reason than to check the license and registration was unreasonable under the 4th amendment."
Delaware v. Prouse
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