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DNR "Administrative Rule" Re: Carry at gun ranges

DanM

DanM

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I OC'd a holstered handgun today at Pontiac Lake Shooting Range, shooting some slug ammo from my shotgun. The range officer (RO) informed me that an "administrative rule" on concealed/open carry at DNR ranges had recently come out, and is as follows:

If a person shows the range officer that they have a CPL, they may carry concealed and/or openly at the range, including downrange when placing targets.

A person not having a CPL (or, I guess, not having notified the RO that they have a CPL), may carry openly except downrange. Before going downrange, their firearm must be at their station, unloaded and action open.

The RO said he did not have a hard copy of this rule, but when he got it he would post it at the bulletin board at the tower.

Anyone else heard of this? It seems to unnecessarily infringe on non-CPL's rights, and increase the chance of an unintended discharge.
 
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DrTodd

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DanM said:
I OC'd a holstered handgun today at Pontiac Lake Shooting Range, shooting some slug ammo from my shotgun. The range officer (RO) informed me that an "administrative rule" on concealed/open carry at DNR ranges had recently come out, and is as follows:

If a person shows the range officer that they have a CPL, they may carry concealed and/or openly at the range, including downrange when placing targets.

A person not having a CPL (or, I guess, not having notified the RO that they have a CPL), may carry openly except downrange. Before going downrange, their firearm must be at their station, unloaded and action open.

The RO said he did not have a hard copy of this rule, but when he got it he would post it at the bulletin board at the tower.

Anyone else heard of this? It seems to unnecessarily infringe on non-CPL's rights, and increase the chance of an unintended discharge.
Click to expand...

The rules actually appear more strict than what the RO indicated.

See R 299.673 Use of firearms on designated shooting ranges; prohibited acts.

Here: http://www7.dleg.state.mi.us/orr/Files/AdminCode/102_40_AdminCode.pdf
 
TheQ

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DanM said:
I OC'd a holstered handgun today at Pontiac Lake Shooting Range, shooting some slug ammo from my shotgun. The range officer (RO) informed me that an "administrative rule" on concealed/open carry at DNR ranges had recently come out, and is as follows:

If a person shows the range officer that they have a CPL, they may carry concealed and/or openly at the range, including downrange when placing targets.

A person not having a CPL (or, I guess, not having notified the RO that they have a CPL), may carry openly except downrange. Before going downrange, their firearm must be at their station, unloaded and action open.

The RO said he did not have a hard copy of this rule, but when he got it he would post it at the bulletin board at the tower.

Anyone else heard of this? It seems to unnecessarily infringe on non-CPL's rights, and increase the chance of an unintended discharge.
Click to expand...

Brian Jeffs and MGO worked with them on these rules. Brian tried to get them to drop the CPL crap to no avail.
 
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DrTodd

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TheQ said:
Brian Jeffs and MGO worked with them on these rules. Brian tried to get them to drop the CPL crap to no avail.

The emboldened part is news to me.
Click to expand...

That part is not in the rule I cited... the rule states :

R 299.673 Use of firearms on designated shooting ranges; prohibited acts.
Rule 3. On a designated shooting range, a person shall not do any of the following:
(a) Possess a loaded firearm, except at established shooting stations on the firing line, unless a person is
licensed in accordance with 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422.
(b) Discharge a firearm, except at established shooting stations at approved targets.
(c) Discharge a firearm, except when wearing hearing and eye protection.
History: 1979 AC; 2010 AACS.
see: http://www7.dleg.state.mi.us/orr/AdminCode.aspx?admincode=Department&Dpt=NR

(last modified in 2010 and not listed as up for revision at the above website)
 
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TheQ

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kubel

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I can see why they made the rules the way they did. They don't want loaded guns being brought down range during a cease fire by some dumbass. For safety, it's best to keep the guns that are being shot unloaded with actions open at the shooters station. Then they considered "well, what about guns for self defense", and then decided to reference a CPL as an exclusion instead of wording it better.
 
stainless1911

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kubel said:
I can see why they made the rules the way they did. They don't want loaded guns being brought down range during a cease fire by some dumbass. For safety, it's best to keep the guns that are being shot unloaded with actions open at the shooters station. Then they considered "well, what about guns for self defense", and then decided to reference a CPL as an exclusion instead of wording it better.
Click to expand...


No! Of all the places that I demand to respect my gun rights, it is gun places. This is just another example of the .gov not respecting my rights or my safety. Especially when they pull the CPL BS. Not that we need a justification to exercise our rights, but there has been at least one murder at a range that I know of. I simply do not turn my back on my gun at any time. Anything less is not only foolishness, but is irresponsible. Not only are you denied your rights and disarmed, you have now left a deadly weapon out of your control, in close proximity to ammunition that can be used against you and others, or simply stolen.
 
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Raggs

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You can DEMAND respect for your rights, and they can DEMAND you leave, Or you can get a CPL

stainless1911 said:
No! Of all the places that I demand to respect my gun rights, it is gun places. This is just another example of the .gov not respecting my rights or my safety. Especially when they pull the CPL BS. Not that we need a justification to exercise our rights, but there has been at least one murder at a range that I know of. I simply do not turn my back on my gun at any time. Anything less is not only foolishness, but is irresponsible. Not only are you denied your rights and disarmed, you have now left a deadly weapon out of your control, in close proximity to ammunition that can be used against you and others, or simply stolen.
Click to expand...
 
Venator

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stainless1911 said:
After what I've been through, they can keep their CPL.

BTW, there is no law requiring you to show your CPL at the range, unless you are CC.
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That will be an issue, you have no obligation to show a CPL. But they can ask you to leave or abide by their rules. Then a person would need to take it to court to challenge it.
 
Venator

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TheQ said:
Website may not be updated? I know Brian Jeffs and Mike Theide were talking to the DNR about 3 or 4 months ago. It wouldn't surprise me if the rule JUST got made within the past few weeks.
Click to expand...

Mike and I sent emails to the DNR range administrator asking for clarification. I know the Administrator was on vacation and may not be back yet. Before he left he did say they were close to posting the rule change. Mike nor I received the final rule for review.

But please keep in mind that this is some progress as OC was not allowed at all. I don't recall that Mike or I discussed having to have a CPL to OC downrange with the DNR. So this is new to us.

This is not the only time the DNR has used a CPL (privilege) excuse to infringe on everyones right to bear arms. They do it for bow hunting as well. Shame on them for this mind set.
 
DanM

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Tallbear over at MGO had this update:

Tallbear over at MGO said:
This is the signage that MGO agreed upon for carrying while on the range. I've asked my contacts in the DNR to clarify what happened.

NOTICE TO RANGE CUSTOMERS: All “Range firearms” must be unloaded and enclosed in a case to enter. Open Carry (OC) and Concealed Carry (with a CPL) is allowed; But only if you are carrying a pistol for self defense and while engaging in other range activities i.e. shooting another firearm, etc. While OCing the firearm must remain holstered or secured in a manner that will prevent accidental discharge (i.e. prevent trigger movement, disengagement of safety or the cocking of the hammer).

If/when the OC carried firearm is to be fired at the range then all range rules apply and the firearm becomes a “range firearm” and must be handle in accordance with all applicable range rules.The open carry of a "Michigan Pistol" will be addressed on an individual basis and is at the discretion of the Range Officer. There is no "OC" of long guns allowed on the range.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1729435&postcount=11
 
H

Haman J.T.

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DanM said:
I OC'd a holstered handgun today at Pontiac Lake Shooting Range, shooting some slug ammo from my shotgun. The range officer (RO) informed me that an "administrative rule" on concealed/open carry at DNR ranges had recently come out, and is as follows:

If a person shows the range officer that they have a CPL, they may carry concealed and/or openly at the range, including downrange when placing targets.

A person not having a CPL (or, I guess, not having notified the RO that they have a CPL), may carry openly except downrange. Before going downrange, their firearm must be at their station, unloaded and action open.

The RO said he did not have a hard copy of this rule, but when he got it he would post it at the bulletin board at the tower.

Anyone else heard of this? It seems to unnecessarily infringe on non-CPL's rights, and increase the chance of an unintended discharge.
Click to expand...
Last year they made me go back to the vehicle and place my OCed gun in a case before they would let me shoot! I guess things have changed since then!
 
Tucker6900

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From experience....

To violate their administrative rules would simply be a civil infraction. They do not hold the weight of State Law.

A summer or so ago, I was ticketed for "having more than one round in the gun" at the range. Neither the on site range rules, nor the DNR webpage rules stated that the range in question was "one round" at a time. At the time, the officer said the ticket was a misdemeanor. Which it wasnt. And I was told by the magistrate that the admin rules are not state law.

The DNR doesnt own the range any more than the police own the sidewalk. They are there for the illusion of safety. Therefore, if one were ticketed for carrying at the range, a preemption argument, IMHO, would suffice.
 
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