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Thread: Important question about courthouse/courtrooms..

  1. #1
    Regular Member paramedic's Avatar
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    Important question about courthouse/courtrooms..

    I think this may have been asked before, trying to figure out the whole courthouse/courtroom issue. If it is a county owned building the houses the courtrooms, but also housed all the local county offices, clerks office, county states atty, and others. All the court rooms are upstairs. Wife and I had an occasion to go there, the last time I was there when I entered in throught the front door there was no gun buster sign (although I had not carried due to going into the courtroom). I told the wife that I did not see a sign last time, so she started in the building, she was origanlly OC, but decided to cover so as to not cause problems. Well the Sheriffs office is right next to it, and that was actually where I had walked into, I was OCing, I have a few friends in the SO, and have carried in there before. While on the way in the building my wife noticed the no weapons sign, so she turned around as was heading back to the car, a deputy approached and asked her where her firearm was, when she pulled up her shirt, he grabbed her arm and stated he was going to disarm her due to carrying in the court house. Now please note that she had not entered the building, had not even stepped on the platform that activates the automatic door. She stated that he did not have a lawful reason for taking her weapon. He then literally pulled her by the arm into the sheriffs office, I was standing there speaking with one of the deputies, that I did not actually know. Well without going into too much detail, they just allowed her to go to car and put her weapon in the car. I explained to them the last time I was there I went in the front door where there is no sign, so I told her it should be ok. Many other "laws" were quoted to us by other LEO's. A major part of the discussion was about where you can an can not carry, one of them a supervisor countered with you can not carry in places like the DMV because it is state owned, and he stated you could not carry in bars( I loved that one). In the end since they did not push it any further since they actually did not arrest her, we let it go for now. Although I have a feeling the may push it later and try to charge her another time. Unfortunatetlly when all this was transpiring in the SO, I did not realize she had not gone into the building, I actually thought she had gone in, and then he detained her. I appologize this is so long, just did not how else to explain the whole of the situation.

    NO ED, we did not have our voice recorder with us
    Last edited by paramedic; 09-04-2012 at 05:39 PM. Reason: correct typo

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    There's a lot of stoopid there so in this case, I'd contact Philip and see if he's willing to give them a crash course.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Go read http://www.virginia1774.org/CourthouseArea.html . Perhaps take a copy of it to the Sherrif and make him sign a receipt of receiving it.

    Not that it's going to do much good until we get some teeth in the preemption law, and get state agencies included. I'm willing to put up with the exclusion of courtrooms, but detest the overstepping of blocking out the whole darned building. If there are not prisoners being moved there is no reason to bar firearms in the hallways or offices.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Go read http://www.virginia1774.org/CourthouseArea.html . Perhaps take a copy of it to the Sherrif and make him sign a receipt of receiving it.

    Not that it's going to do much good until we get some teeth in the preemption law, and get state agencies included. I'm willing to put up with the exclusion of courtrooms, but detest the overstepping of blocking out the whole darned building. If there are not prisoners being moved there is no reason to bar firearms in the hallways or offices.

    stay safe.
    How comfortable do we feel that there is no further guidance by the courts since this case? Also, what court issued this opinion? I can't find it in the text.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic View Post
    ...While on the way in the building my wife noticed the no weapons sign, so she turned around as was heading back to the car, a deputy approached and asked her where her firearm was, when she pulled up her shirt, he grabbed her arm and stated he was going to disarm her due to carrying in the court house. Now please note that she had not entered the building, had not even stepped on the platform that activates the automatic door. She stated that he did not have a lawful reason for taking her weapon. He then literally pulled her by the arm into the sheriffs office, I was standing there speaking with one of the deputies, that I did not actually know. Well without going into too much detail, they just allowed her to go to car and put her weapon in the car.
    Because he really had no reason to confront her (She was outside the building - walking away, even. Not entering it), why is this not assault and unlawful detainment?

    Your wife is a much more level-headed person than I am. I would have made a scene. And I bruise easily, so 'grabbing my arm' would likely leave a mark.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    A couple of circuit courts have issued general orders relating to courthouses like that, which I think exceed their authority. But there they are, and the sheriffs enforce them. I'm thinking particularly of Loudoun and Martinsville. In my opinion, buildings that are "mixed use" can't simply assert that the entire building is "the courthouse"; but they're saving money on metal detectors and bailiffs, because if they did all that screening stuff legally, they'd have to have it set up outside every court-related door inside the building.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    How comfortable do we feel that there is no further guidance by the courts since this case?

    I cannot get it Shepardized but I'm pretty sure it is the last word on the matter.

    Also, what court issued this opinion? I can't find it in the text.

    TFred
    Error to a judgment of the Circuit Court of Lee County.

    That would be the Court of Appeals - else it would say error to a judgement of the Court of Appeals.



    stay safe.
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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    There's another important question you should ask yourself. Are you willing to let the government manhandle your wife for NO REASON and get away with it?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic View Post
    NO ED, we did not have our voice recorder with us
    Yeah? so why not?
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    Yeah? so why not?
    Because it is probibitted to have a recorder in "courthouses"!

    Srsly, get up to date.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Because it is probibitted to have a recorder in "courthouses"!

    Srsly, get up to date.

    stay safe.
    Damn Skid, you beat me to it.

    This seems like a real Barney Fyfe type of story. Sorry to the wife, assault by cop is inexcuseable.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    The reaction of the deputy seems a bit over the top. I would contact the VCDL and have them write a letter to the Sheriff, in addition to writing one yourself. My department has a "go put it back in your car" policy, even if you attempt to come through the metal detectors with it.

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic View Post
    NO ED, we did not have our voice recorder with us
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Because it is probibitted to have a recorder in "courthouses"! Srsly, get up to date.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Damn Skid, you beat me to it.
    But you were not IN the courthouse yet you said.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbuck View Post
    My department has a "go put it back in your car" policy
    So it can be smash and grabbed and stolen..
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed View Post
    But you were not IN the courthouse yet you said.
    Ed, the very helpful Deputies will often accost gang tackle remind citizens of various and sundry prohibitted items before the citizen crosses the magic boundary between free public space and "the courthouse" just to make sure the citizen does not unintentionally violate the rules/laws/whims of those in charge.

    But I'm eager to hear how you would have approached the situation.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post

    But I'm eager to hear how you would have approached the situation.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by peter nap; 09-14-2012 at 11:00 AM.

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