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Thread: A question for the NC OCDO community

  1. #1
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    A question for the NC OCDO community

    Hey all.

    Here's the situation: I was down at a local store last night around 7PM (for reasons of privacy since a big deal was not really made here, I won't post the store's name, I just want to see how you all would have handled this situation). I walk in, and there's really no one in there, and I'm looking at something in the front, and I see someone walk up beside me. I look, and it's an employee of the store, just standing there (I had my gun facing the side the employee was standing at). The following took place:

    Employee: "Excuse me"
    Me: "Is there a problem?" (nicely)
    Employee: "Can you do me a favor?"
    Me: "What's that?"
    Employee: "Can you cover that up or something?"
    Me: "Cover what up?"
    Employee: "Your weapon"
    Me: (I looked at her like she was nuts for a few seconds then said, nicely) "I'm sorry ma'am, but I can't do that. If I did, I would be in violation of the law and could go to prison."
    Employee: "Well why not?"
    Me: (again nicely) "Ma'am, I don't have a Concealed Handgun Permit. If I were to cover that weapon, I would be breaking the law by concealing without a permit. (The shirt I had on wouldn't have covered the holster anyway). Even if I had a concealed carry permit, open carry is fully legal in NC, and I'm not required by law to cover my gun or carry concealed at all times. If this will be a problem during my visit, I can leave and go down to the local Wal-Mart to get what I need."
    Employee: *just stares at me with one of those "I'm not too happy about this" looks on her face*
    Me: (After about 5 seconds) Well, If there will be no further issues, I'll get what I need and be on my way. Have a great evening."

    The rest of the visit went without incident. You could tell she wasn't too happy. The manager was out for the evening, otherwise I may have asked to speak to him about what happened. I later that evening found out from someone that knows her that guns make her nervous. I'm sorry that guns make her nervous, but that doesn't give you a right to trample on people's rights and ask them to cover their weapons. What that employee did was pretty bold and uncalled for, if you ask me. The real kicker here is that the County Sheriff's office is right the down the road, and on-and-off duty Sheriff's Deputies come in there carrying their duty weapons constantly.

    But enough with my opinion. I now ask you all this question: Based on what I've given you above, if you were in my position, what would you have done? I ask this so that if I'm ever in a position like this again, I know how to properly handle it, and not give OC'ers a bad name. Thanks ahead of time.

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    I think you handled it perfectly! Kudos

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    Quote Originally Posted by frogfish View Post
    I think you handled it perfectly! Kudos
    Thanks . This is the first time I had ever been put in to that situation, so I had to think pretty fast on my feet. The funny part is: I've carried in just about every business in Reidsville, and so far, only this store and Sears have given me any issues (our local sears is an "outlet" store, they only sell appliances, tools, and lawn & garden).

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i think you did fine and it is up to you if you want to follow up with contacting the management.

    sense she didn't ask you to leave you are in the good
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    i think you did fine and it is up to you if you want to follow up with contacting the management.

    sense she didn't ask you to leave you are in the good
    I probably won't this time, since this is the first problem I've had with this employee. It turns out she was an assistant manager. I had a problem at this store before with another assistant manager, but she's no longer with the company.

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    Firstly, unless this was a publicly owned building you gave the asst. mngr. incorrect information. You could have covered the weapon for her. Concealed carry permits are for carrying concealed in public. On private property you can legally carry concealed with permission. Secondly, do you put your rights ahead of the owners of the business? You want people to respect your 2A rights but seem to be annoyed by the fact that businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone as long as they do not discriminate due to race, sex, handicap or religion. Respect is a two way street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Firstly, unless this was a publicly owned building you gave the asst. mngr. incorrect information. You could have covered the weapon for her. Concealed carry permits are for carrying concealed in public. On private property you can legally carry concealed with permission. Secondly, do you put your rights ahead of the owners of the business? You want people to respect your 2A rights but seem to be annoyed by the fact that businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone as long as they do not discriminate due to race, sex, handicap or religion. Respect is a two way street.
    I would suggest you read NC General Statute 14-269.2. CC w/o permit is only allowed on a person's own premises.
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-269.html

    OP did not put his rights ahead of the business; he offered to take his business elsewhere if the exercise of his rights were at odds with those of the business.

    OP, I think you did just fine.

    Apparently the person wasn't so nervous about guns that it kept her from confronting you.
    Last edited by bc.cruiser; 09-04-2012 at 09:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    I would suggest you read NC General Statute 14-269.2. CC w/o permit is only allowed on a person's own premises.
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-269.html

    OP did not put his rights ahead of the business; he offered to take his business elsewhere if the exercise of his rights were at odds with those of the business.

    OP, I think you did just fine.

    Apparently the person wasn't so nervous about guns that it kept her from confronting you.
    That's what I thought regarding CC without permit, I knew it was legal on your own premises, but didn't think it was anywhere else. Even if it was, I tried today with the same shirt I wore last night to cover it while in the house, and over 1/4 of the holster would still be showing anyway, so that would defeat the purpose in covering it up. Another thing is that the store manager (this is a corporate-owned chain store deal by the way) has seen me carry in there all the time, with no issues at all. I also understand that a business has a right to refuse service to anyone, unless it would be deemed discrimination. I just thought it was kind of odd and pretty wrong that an employee of a store would just walk right up to you and ask you to cover your weapon. I respect the rights of any business to ban guns/ask anyone carrying to leave, and I also have the right to ban my money/business from that store as well, and take it a competitor that is more supportive of carry.

    @bc.cruiser: Thanks , this is the second time I've had problems there (first was with a different assistant manager who left the company), but the store manager never had an issue with it. Yeah, I found it kind of odd that guns make you nervous, but your going to look me right in the face and ask me to cover it up. Am I missing something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by s&w_M&P_owner View Post
    That's what I thought regarding CC without permit, I knew it was legal on your own premises, but didn't think it was anywhere else. Even if it was, I tried today with the same shirt I wore last night to cover it while in the house, and over 1/4 of the holster would still be showing anyway, so that would defeat the purpose in covering it up. Another thing is that the store manager (this is a corporate-owned chain store deal by the way) has seen me carry in there all the time, with no issues at all. I also understand that a business has a right to refuse service to anyone, unless it would be deemed discrimination. I just thought it was kind of odd and pretty wrong that an employee of a store would just walk right up to you and ask you to cover your weapon. I respect the rights of any business to ban guns/ask anyone carrying to leave, and I also have the right to ban my money/business from that store as well, and take it a competitor that is more supportive of carry.

    @bc.cruiser: Thanks , this is the second time I've had problems there (first was with a different assistant manager who left the company), but the store manager never had an issue with it. Yeah, I found it kind of odd that guns make you nervous, but your going to look me right in the face and ask me to cover it up. Am I missing something?
    I too find it interesting that someone will approach an armed person. I believe it the way we look. They don't like guns and our appearance doesn't look hostile so they will approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    I would suggest you read NC General Statute 14-269.2. CC w/o permit is only allowed on a person's own premises.
    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-269.html
    That covers without permission. Once you are given permission you are covered by different statutes. If you walk into my home or business and I give you permission to conceal you are legally able to do so. Keep in mind how vaguely the law is written. It is done so to open it to interpretation. If you came into my business and I said "bc.cruiser I'm going to the bathroom, you're in charge." At this point it would become your premises because you are in control until I return. You also have to know I am legally able to hire or designate security and permit them to conceal.

    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    OP did not put his rights ahead of the business; he offered to take his business elsewhere if the exercise of his rights were at odds with those of the business.
    Quote Originally Posted by s&w_M&P_owner View Post
    I later that evening found out from someone that knows her that guns make her nervous. I'm sorry that guns make her nervous, but that doesn't give you a right to trample on people's rights and ask them to cover their weapons. What that employee did was pretty bold and uncalled for, if you ask me.
    Being nervous does give you the right. A business can refuse service or ask someone to leave for any reason that is not discriminatory. If that quote is not feeling that your rights are more important than someone elses I do not know what is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketdad View Post
    I too find it interesting that someone will approach an armed person. I believe it the way we look. They don't like guns and our appearance doesn't look hostile so they will approach.
    I think you are on the right track but I believe it has more to do with posture than looks. I see a lot of open carriers that seem apprehensive when in public and I feel that draws attention towards them. There is also the people that are testing the waters to see if anyone will notice and they put off a different vibe. I was in W-S all weekend on the motorcycle so everywhere I went I open carried. Not one comment. Walmart at midnight because my motorcycle battery died. I was the minority and I was blatantly carrying as I had taken my overshirt off and the pistol and extra mags could easily be seen contrasting against my white undershirt. Local diners, Taco Bell, McDonalds, various gas stations and two hotels. Got dozens of comments about being on the bike and such but not one firearm comment. I rarely do get them whether I am in jeans and a t-shirt, athletic wear or a shirt and tie. I believe if you carry yourself with confidence people will accept your authority.

    I have to wonder what posture the OP was exhibiting since when approached by a store employee his response was is there a problem? My logical response would have been to decline their help if I did not need it instead of wondering if something was wrong with me being there.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 09-05-2012 at 08:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    That covers without permission. Once you are given permission you are covered by different statutes. If you walk into my home or business and I give you permission to conceal you are legally able to do so. Keep in mind how vaguely the law is written. It is done so to open it to interpretation. If you came into my business and I said "bc.cruiser I'm going to the bathroom, you're in charge." At this point it would become your premises because you are in control until I return. You also have to know I am legally able to hire or designate security and permit them to conceal.

    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14‑269;
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event.
    .
    I'm going to have to take exception to your post. You may allow someone to CC on your premises, but the statute is still that the CCer must have the permit. I would ask you to state which articles/sections you are referencing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    I'm going to have to take exception to your post. You may allow someone to CC on your premises, but the statute is still that the CCer must have the permit. I would ask you to state which articles/sections you are referencing.
    Gotta agree with you....it looks like that part was taken from 14‑269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. and I don't think really applies to any other situation generally. IMO. This sounds like VERY questionable legal advice to me...but IANAL.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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