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Thread: CaledoniaPatch: Article on CCW carrier with DUI arrest

  1. #1
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    CaledoniaPatch: Article on CCW carrier with DUI arrest

    If convicted, this Mount Pleasant man may learn the hard way that drinking, driving and packing heat don't mix.

    A man suspected of drunken driving was also arrested for having a gun in his car at 2:47 a.m. Monday on Douglas Avenue at Four Mile Road.

    The 22-year-old Mount Pleasant man, in addition to being arrested for having a gun while intoxicated, was arrested for drunken driving (1st offense), having a prohibited blood-alcohol concentration and speeding. Formal charges have not been submitted to the Racine County District Attorney's office.

    The man had a conceal carry license, but it does not allow someone who is intoxicated to carry a weapon. A person could lose their conceal carry license if they are found guilty of violating that law, said Lt. Gary Larsen.

    "We're starting to see more of these gun-related calls," Larsen said. "Is it a lot? I don't know, but I know it's more."

    According to a report by the Caledonia Police Department, a police officer stopped the man on a traffic stop going 63 mph in a 35 mph zone. The man handed the officer his CCW license and pointed to a holstered handgun on the passenger seat.

    The man offered to give the officer the gun, but the officer told him not to touch it. The officer noted that he was cooperative and had admitted to speeding. But the man smelled of beer and when the officer saw a 12-pack of Miller Lite on the passenger floor, he told him he had a few beers as he slurred his words. After his arrest, police searched his car and found the bottles were still cold.

    The man's blood-alcohol level was .08, which is the level at which it is illegal to drive.

    http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/...-carry-license

  2. #2
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    I don't see a connection between DUI and losing a license to carry .... just commies trying to grab our rights

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    Here's the cite for the appropriate Wisconsin statute:
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/941/III/20

    941.20  Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
    _ (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:

    ...
    __(b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant; or
    ...
    Conviction for this offense alone, would not make someone ineligible for a Wisconsin CCL unless a judge issued an order prohibiting possession of a firearm.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    He wasn't carrying. It was not on his person. I guess this doesn't matter. Gay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    He wasn't carrying. It was not on his person. I guess this doesn't matter. Gay.

    The definition of carry, and case law regarding such is explained and discussed here:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1814107

    I have no opinion on the sexual preference of the suspect, but it does not have a bearing on this charge.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Warning. Genius at Large.

    "We're starting to see more of these gun-related calls," Larsen said. "Is it a lot? I don't know, but I know it's more."
    http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/...-carry-license
    Oh really?

    As opposed to when? Like last year when no one had a CCL? Our tax dollars at work.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    My leo friend from Prescott told me that 2 weeks ago he was called to a house where a CCL holder was drunk and had shot up his house from the inside. He told the leo that he did not know that the gun was loaded. Excuse me? Gus should be consedered loaded at all times even if it is actually unloaded. I am wondering if the DOJ is afraid of these kinds of idiots with CCL and that is why it is trying to change rules.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip20 View Post
    He wasn't carrying. It was not on his person. I guess this doesn't matter. Gay.
    This has been discussed before at length here.... "Going armed" does not require that you go anywere and the firearm simply has to be withing lunge reach...

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    Regular Member anmut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Oh really?

    As opposed to when? Like last year when no one had a CCL? Our tax dollars at work.
    I saw that too - a typical cop doing his best to spout non-fact-based truth-isms he heard from the steroid-induced voices in his head.

  10. #10
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    the question i have is what is the max. rate for being drunk. i thought .08 was it. is it lower in WI?

    but i do notice that the law states under the influence, not at what level. what would it be if the firearm had been in the trunk?
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    the question i have is what is the max. rate for being drunk. i thought .08 was it. is it lower in WI?

    but i do notice that the law states under the influence, not at what level. what would it be if the firearm had been in the trunk?
    There is no requirement to be "drunk". For operating a motor vehicle you are subject to a PAC (Operating with a Prohibited Alcohol Concentration which is .08% and above)
    346.63  Operating under influence of intoxicant or other drug. (1) No person may drive or operate a motor vehicle while(b) The person has a prohibited alcohol concentration.
    and a OUI (Operating Under the Influence) citation
    346.63  Operating under influence of intoxicant or other drug. (1) No person may drive or operate a motor vehicle while(a) Under the influence of an intoxicant, a controlled substance, a controlled substance analog or any combination of an intoxicant, a controlled substance and a controlled substance analog, under the influence of any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving, or under the combined influence of an intoxicant and any other drug to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely driving;
    The firearm offense has nothing to do with blood alcohol content and everything with being Under the Influence which is defined as being Materially Impaired. If you are found to have a controlled substance in your system, there is no minimum. Any detectable amount of a controlled substance is enough for a OUI conviction for driving or being Under the Influence while going armed with a firearm. As was already mentioned "going armed" does not require you to go anywhere. You are armed if the firearm is within your lunge reach. You are not armed if the firearm is in your trunk although I would not put it past a LEO to cite someone for it or a prosecutor to charge someone with it and leave it up to the court to sort out.


    “Under the Influence has been defined as materially impairing the ability to
    handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the
    person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a
    firearm.‖ WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321.

    941.20  Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
    (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
    (b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant; or
    (bm) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she has a detectable amount of a restricted controlled substance in his or her blood.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 09-09-2012 at 04:48 PM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider
    ...called to a house where a CCL holder was drunk and had shot up his house from the inside. He told the leo that he did not know that the gun was loaded.
    Gus should be considered loaded at all times even if it is actually unloaded.
    The gun & operator were both loaded, & that's a very bad combination.
    One thing alcohol does is to impair judgment. If he were sober, he'd probably tell you "all guns are always loaded". But somehow, it seemed like a good idea at the time to put some holes in his walls.

    I am wondering if the DOJ is afraid of these kinds of idiots with CCL and that is why it is trying to change rules.
    [rant] This has absolutely ZERO to do with concealed carry! This was some guy at his own home doing stupid things. No license is required to have a gun on private property, especially your own home. [/rant]

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear
    the question i have is what is the max. rate for being drunk. i thought .08 was it. is it lower in WI?
    but i do notice that the law states under the influence, not at what level. what would it be if the firearm had been in the trunk?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight
    The firearm offense has nothing to do with blood alcohol content and everything with being Under the Influence which is defined as being Materially Impaired.
    OUI can be charged at 0.08% & that's all the proof they need.
    It can also be charged if someone can be proved to be materially impaired, for which there is no definition in WI law.
    As for it being in the trunk & being OK, I've seen a judge (admittedly, a very anti-rights judge) refuse to return a pistol to someone because the pistol was in the trunk of his car when he was stopped (& eventually convicted) for DUI. Her 'reasoning' is that somehow the pistol was used in the crime (DUI) so was forfeit.
    How exactly does anything in the trunk of the car have anything to do with the state of the operator? Just like it wouldn't have anything to do with him being pulled over for running a stop sign.

    You are not armed if the firearm is in your trunk although I would not put it past a LEO to cite someone for it or a prosecutor to charge someone with it and leave it up to the court to sort out.
    That makes perfect sense to anyone who's not a lawyer, a judge (subset of lawyers), or a LEO.
    And I'm guessing that there are parts of the state where even they would see what's obvious to average everyday people... parts that don't include Killwaukee or Madistan.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    OUI can be charged at 0.08% & that's all the proof they need.
    It can also be charged if someone can be proved to be materially impaired, for which there is no definition in WI law.
    .08% has zero to do with OUI(OWI). You can not infer nor charge someone with OWI simply because they have a PAC (.08%). They are completely separate violations. Materially impaired is defined in the "law". It is in jury instruction. I quoted the general court description of it above as it pertains to firearms... To generalize it means that you have or are acting less safe than you would be had you not consumed the alcohol. An affirmative defense against a charge of OWI is that the accident/incident would have occurred even if you had not consumed the alcohol or controlled substance.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    As for it being in the trunk & being OK, I've seen a judge (admittedly, a very anti-rights judge) refuse to return a pistol to someone because the pistol was in the trunk of his car when he was stopped (& eventually convicted) for DUI. Her 'reasoning' is that somehow the pistol was used in the crime (DUI) so was forfeit.
    In your scenario, the person was not charged with anything because it was in the trunk. Creative forfeiture of property is a completely separate issue than we are currently discussing although something to consider when you deliberately break the law and your firearm is anywhere near.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 09-10-2012 at 12:07 AM.

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    [rant] This has absolutely ZERO to do with concealed carry! This was some guy at his own home doing stupid things. No license is required to have a gun on private property, especially your own home. [/rant]


    I guess you are right there MKE.

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    Wow..

    Holstered handgun on the front seat and a 12 pack on the floor...Wow...That is not only stupid it is scary...

    Outdoorsman1
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Holstered handgun on the front seat and a 12 pack on the floor...Wow...That is not only stupid it is scary...

    Outdoorsman1
    Because there are so many problems in other states?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    CaledoniaPatch: Article on CCW carrier with DUI arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1 View Post
    Holstered handgun on the front seat and a 12 pack on the floor...Wow...That is not only stupid it is scary...

    Outdoorsman1
    That could easily be me on my way home from the grocery store. My holstered firearm on the passenger seat (or hidden in center console) and a (unopened) 12 pack or bottle of my favorite spirits on the passenger floor or even back seat floor. This scares you? Does your shadow also scare you?

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman1
    Holstered handgun on the front seat and a 12 pack on the floor...
    Wow...That is not only stupid it is scary...
    I agree - better security for the pistol is in order.

    police searched his car and found the bottles were still cold
    BFHD! So he was on his way home from the store.
    This is a problem why?
    (Not talking about his supposed driving under the influence, but the way this is phrased implies that simply having closed containers of cold beer in the car is wrong.)
    Last edited by MKEgal; 11-05-2012 at 05:32 PM.

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