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Thread: Ok ! I give up ! Why does Social Security need 174,000 hollow-point bullets ????

  1. #1
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    Ok ! I give up ! Why does Social Security need 174,000 hollow-point bullets ????

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    By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER | Associated Press Tue, Sep 4, 2012Share39EmailPrintRelated ContentPlay VideoVideo: Privatizing Social Security
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    Article: In Florida, Medicare is not a senior-only issue
    Sun, Sep 2, 2012
    WASHINGTON (AP) It didn't take long for the Internet to start buzzing with conspiracy theories after the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was purchasing 174,000 hollow-point bullets.

    Why is the agency that provides benefits to retirees, disabled workers, widows and children stockpiling ammunition? Whom are they going to use it on?

    "It's not outlandish to suggest that the Social Security Administration is purchasing the bullets as part of preparations for civil unrest," the website Infowars.com said.

    Another website, The Daily Caller, said the bullets must be for use against American citizens, "since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens."

    The clamor became such a distraction for the agency that it dedicated a website to explaining the purchase. The explanation, it turns out, isn't as tantalizing as an arms buildup to defend against unruly senior citizens.

    The bullets are for Social Security's office of inspector general, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes, said Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency's assistant IG for external relations.

    The agents carry guns and make arrests 589 last year, Lasher said. They execute search warrants and respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees and customers.

    Agents carry .357 caliber pistols, Lasher said. The bullets, which add up to about 590 per agent, are for the upcoming fiscal year. Most will be expended on the firing range.

    Some bloggers have taken issue with the type of ammunition the agency is buying, questioning why agents need hollow-point bullets. Hollow-points are known for causing more tissue damage than other bullets when they hit a person because they expand when they enter the body.

    The bullets, however, are standard issue for many law enforcement agencies, Lasher said, a fact confirmed by the directors of two law enforcement training centers.

    "For practice ammunition, they do not have to be hollow-points, but hollow-points are the normal police round used for duty ammunition due to their ability to stop when they hit an object as opposed to going through it and striking more objects," said William J. Muldoon, president of the International Association of Directors of Law Enforcement Standards and Training.

    "Six hundred rounds per year for training, qualification and I would assume to carry on duty is not out of line at all," said John W. Worden, director of the University of Missouri's Law Enforcement Training Institute. "Hollow points are carried by law enforcement all over the country and are probably the preferred type of ammo no matter what caliber."

    The episode illustrates what can happen when a seemingly salacious tidbit gets amplified and embellished on the Internet.

    A few weeks ago, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration had a similar dustup when it solicited bids for 46,000 rounds of ammunition and shooting targets, seemingly to arm workers at the National Weather Service. It turns out the notice had a clerical error and the bullets were for NOAA's Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, the agency said.

    Social Security's turn in the pillory hit a crescendo when Jay Leno joked about it in a recent monologue on "The Tonight Show." ''What senior citizens are they worried about?" Leno asked. "I mean, who's going to storm the building?"

    Lasher said, "That's why we opened a blog post. We were getting a lot of inquiries and the blog gave us a vehicle to put all of the accurate information out there in one place, so that those who are interested or concerned can read what the real story is."





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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    It comes out to 597 rounds per agent and they work for the field officers from the Office of investigations, the inspectors Generals Social security division. They are real cops doing real police work and most of the ammo will end up being shot on the gun range. If I was an officer and I got less than 600 rounds a year I would feel underwhelmed, I shoot way more than that every month.

    Don't let the bloggers push your panic button, they do love to make mountains out of mole hills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    It comes out to 597 rounds per agent and they work for the field officers from the Office of investigations, the inspectors Generals Social security division. They are real cops doing real police work and most of the ammo will end up being shot on the gun range. If I was an officer and I got less than 600 rounds a year I would feel underwhelmed, I shoot way more than that every month.

    Don't let the bloggers push your panic button, they do love to make mountains out of mole hills.
    I'm not, I just hope they got a good price..I ask little wolf if he bid on the contract ? nope. the wife was wondering if it came out of her check.

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    Regular Member wmodavis's Avatar
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    Maybe they will pay us in ammo.

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    why? why? you'll find out soon...

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    why? why? you'll find out soon...
    I need to make one of them hats...

    I thought it was .357 Sig?

    So have any of us ever seen a S.S. agent that had a gun? Oh wait, I read about the SS a few years back...

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    Sounds a little fishy to me. 175K in hollow points, almost all of which are being represented as used for practice? Hmmmm.

    The bigger issue is that the Social Security Administration has its own people that execute warrants, etc. The fedgov has gotten totally out of hand. Now, each alphabet agency has its own armed muscle. Last year it was which agency buying a truckload of shotguns? Dept. of Education or something?
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-05-2012 at 08:12 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
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    Ok ! I give up ! Why does Social Security need 174,000 hollow-point bullets?

    i got this one! to reduce the number of recipients to meet the current administration's budgetary goals?.............no, wait, that aint funny, might be true, guess we'll discuss this in the FEMA camps at a later date.

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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    It isn't Social Security getting the ammo its the agents for the Inspector General who investigate Social Security fraud. Fraud that costs us millions of dollars going to people who are sucking money from other peoples credit cards, tax accounts, social security accounts, identity theft etc, They are dealing with big money thieves and I would just as soon they be able to shoot straight if they have to shoot. Only a few hundred officers dealing with large rings sucking up our money and you begrudge them a few hundred rounds each for practice? This is one of the areas where it is a legitimate expense but has been blown out of all proportion by bloggers who are attacking everything legitimate or not.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    It isn't Social Security getting the ammo its the agents for the Inspector General who investigate Social Security fraud. Fraud that costs us millions of dollars going to people who are sucking money from other peoples credit cards, tax accounts, social security accounts, identity theft etc, They are dealing with big money thieves and I would just as soon they be able to shoot straight if they have to shoot. Only a few hundred officers dealing with large rings sucking up our money and you begrudge them a few hundred rounds each for practice? This is one of the areas where it is a legitimate expense but has been blown out of all proportion by bloggers who are attacking everything legitimate or not.
    Thank you for a rational, informative and fact based response. Quite refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    It isn't Social Security getting the ammo its the agents for the Inspector General who investigate Social Security fraud. Fraud that costs us millions of dollars going to people who are sucking money from other peoples credit cards, tax accounts, social security accounts, identity theft etc, They are dealing with big money thieves and I would just as soon they be able to shoot straight if they have to shoot. Only a few hundred officers dealing with large rings sucking up our money and you begrudge them a few hundred rounds each for practice? This is one of the areas where it is a legitimate expense but has been blown out of all proportion by bloggers who are attacking everything legitimate or not.
    I would rather the fedgov shrink dramatically so every alphabet agency does not have armed agents. We're into the redundancy and duplication of effort nonsense too deep on this sort of thing. Way too deep.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Grump View Post
    It isn't Social Security getting the ammo its the agents for the Inspector General who investigate Social Security fraud. Fraud that costs us millions of dollars going to people who are sucking money from other peoples credit cards, tax accounts, social security accounts, identity theft etc, They are dealing with big money thieves and I would just as soon they be able to shoot straight if they have to shoot. Only a few hundred officers dealing with large rings sucking up our money and you begrudge them a few hundred rounds each for practice? This is one of the areas where it is a legitimate expense but has been blown out of all proportion by bloggers who are attacking everything legitimate or not.
    Uh, you need to read the OP again, this time with your cheaters on.

    The bullets are for Social Security's office of inspector general, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes, said Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency's assistant IG for external relations.
    Can't get any more Social Security connected than that.

    No, it is not a legitimate expense, not by a long shot. The SSA needs a cop on their payroll just as much as the federal Dept. of Ed. needs a cop on their payroll to investigate college loan fraud.

    Ya gotta have some priorities.....and perspective.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    597 rounds per agent

    Is this an annual purchase? I go thru about 500 rounds a month just keeping my skills up. I would expect these guys to use about this much just in annual qual shoots.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Is this an annual purchase? I go thru about 500 rounds a month just keeping my skills up. I would expect these guys to use about this much just in annual qual shoots.
    I used to be rather supportive: "I want them to be well qualified."

    Having experienced the monstrous growth of the tyrannical fedgov, I am a lot less supportive. I really don't like the idea of me paying (taxation) for my overlords to get better at shooting at me. Or, shooting back if the real need for the 2A is ever realized.

    Self-defense is still legitimate for any of these inspectors office types. Let them practice it on their own time and their own dime, just like you and I. As for professional ability, let them test semi-annually or something. With practice ammo.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Listen to the government's explanation, then believe the exact opposite.

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    My theory is a little darker.

    One theory is that Social Security is far closer to failing than they are leading us to believe. The ammo several departments have bought, the riot gear and body armor the DHS has bought, the shot guns the Department of Education bought and all the other hidden deals that may or may not be known are all going to be used to squash the inevitable "bank runs" and riots that are going to happen once it becomes public that all the money we have been putting into a sinking ship is lost and we are on our own.

    Another is that regardless of who wins the upcoming Presidential election there is going to be some sort of uprising and they are preparing for that possibility.

    I hope its all tin hat stuff, but if my guns were'nt lost in that horrible boating accident some time back I would be buying ammo myself.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Establishing a contract does not equal purchasing. Even if that many were purchased it is because of a contract at a fixed price. It makes sense from a budget standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Uh, you need to read the OP again, this time with your cheaters on.

    Can't get any more Social Security connected than that.

    No, it is not a legitimate expense, not by a long shot. The SSA needs a cop on their payroll just as much as the federal Dept. of Ed. needs a cop on their payroll to investigate college loan fraud.

    Ya gotta have some priorities.....and perspective.
    Inspector generals office that deals with social security fraud, they are cops, They are not social security agents.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

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    Regular Member freak4cycles's Avatar
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    Maybe to Kill?

    "Why is the agency that provides benefits to retirees, disabled workers, widows and children stockpiling ammunition? Whom are they going to use it on?"

    "It's not outlandish to suggest that the Social Security Administration is purchasing the bullets as part of preparations for civil unrest," the website Infowars.com said.

    Maybe they are stocking up so they can just kill off all who drain the system, The elderly, The Handi caped, sick children and adults?
    This would make the cost going out in payments shrink? I wouldn't put it past any department of this United States. You can't trust any department!

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    This thread reminded me of a good clip from the onion.

    http://www.theonion.com/video/social...icans-t,21006/

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    anyone have a link to an invoice?

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    Regular Member Old Grump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freak4cycles View Post
    "Why is the agency that provides benefits to retirees, disabled workers, widows and children stockpiling ammunition? Whom are they going to use it on?"

    "It's not outlandish to suggest that the Social Security Administration is purchasing the bullets as part of preparations for civil unrest," the website Infowars.com said.

    Maybe they are stocking up so they can just kill off all who drain the system, The elderly, The Handi caped, sick children and adults?
    This would make the cost going out in payments shrink? I wouldn't put it past any department of this United States. You can't trust any department!
    Didn't bother to read the article? Are you just an echo chamber for all the weirdo arm waving idiots out there who make lots of noise but absolutely no sense at all. Not saying you are that kind of idiot, I am just curious as to the point of that mindless diatribe.
    Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAF and CCRKBA

  24. #24
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    there are 2 ways we can look at this matter/issue:

    a government investment to respond to an armed criminal element.

    or.............a government investment that some theorize we would 'get back' (when you think about it) when they are used on us.

    depends upon your point of view, and what their 'plans' are. somehow i doubt the ammunition is there to deal with a zombie, or alien threat.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I have to ask again.

    Have any of our forum members ever seen any Social Security workers that carry a gun? I know I never even heard of this, but I guess I have not seen any S.S. workers on the street. Hmm, armed S.S. on our streets, kind of reminds me of something...
    It does make me wonder what other Gov. branch's carry guns that I don't know about. I am very sure FEMA is a super big one on this list...

    Me thinks this is going to become a real problem for us all someday soon...

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