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Thread: How do you handle "stupid people"? Anti-gun but claim they are not.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    How do you handle "stupid people"? Anti-gun but claim they are not.

    So, I have a family member that hates it when I OC. She claims that it makes her uncomfortable. I pointed out that there are other people around the area that OC and she told me that those people make her uncomfortable too but that's their right. I told her that if she is so uncomfortable with OC then why do you like cops so much? She responds badly to this. She tells it me that I am just putting my gun in people's faces (if I was 10' tall that might be true I carry OC on my thigh). I said no, I am not required to have a license to OC but I need a license to CC, and besides the cops are not very well trained. (This varies from cop to cop to I know but look at New York.) I also told her that is she is so afraid of guns that she should get counseling.
    If I wish to visit with this family member I am told that I can only CC when I am out in public with her. I asked why is that? Because I said so.

    Now this is the same member of the family who came home the other night to 6 police cars stopped 2-3 (it's hard to explain) houses over walking around with 'big guns' around 2300 hours that night and then asks me if I know what they might be. I showed her my AR15 and she said they looked like that. So I told her they are likely the M4 combat rifles. Not being sure of the original question of "Do you know what guns the cops carry?" I told her it depends on the department but many of the in this state carry Glocks the same make and model I carry on my leg.

    She keeps claiming she is not anti-gun but likes new guns law and hates it when people open carry because she can see their gun.
    She didn't like it when I refused to visit her one Christmas because I could not carry while visiting. She changed her mind after that because I would not visit at all if those were the conditions.

    I am former military, one brother and my sister are military and she does not trust any of us with guns.

    How do you handle family members/friends who are like that?
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    You already handled it. You declined to visit. It seems that she has reconsidered her position with regards to you and you exercising your right to defend yourself.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I've discovered a direct relation between people who claim to be afraid at the sight of guns and those who drive around with their heads in their laps texting their bar buddies. Seems to me that we need better automobile control, maybe an outright ban of anything "menacing" looking. Heck, we should probably just ban them within a thousand yards (yes, I said yards) of any licensed liquor establishments.

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    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    I open carry everywhere, no one in my family has had any issues with it but then I am the patriarch of the family. 8 kids and only 1 brother. If someone did have issues with it I wouldn't visit, but during the family get togethers they would have to deal with it as they are at my house.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    You tried to have a rational argument with an emotional person and failed. You then changed to an emotional argument: "If I can't carry, I'm not coming." The emotional argument made to an emotional person carried the proper weight, and you "won".
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    Buy her a gun for Christmas !

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    you can't be serious?

    I deal with it by putting a piece of apparel over the gun.

    just CC at the family events and don't let it be an issue. Obviously your family member has problems with firearms, as you very much do as well. I can understand wanting to OC, but to the point where you're willing to show you own family the cold shoulder becuase of a temper tantrum over a gun? both you AND this family member obviously have deep seated relationship issues that need to be worked out. maybe you two should go on Dr. Phil.

    if anti gun family members come to visit, I cover my piece. family bonds are more important then petty political issues, be the higher man for god's sake.
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-07-2012 at 04:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    you can't be serious?

    I deal with it by putting a piece of apparel over the gun.

    just CC at the family events and don't let it be an issue. Obviously your family member has problems with firearms, as you very much do as well. I can understand wanting to OC, but to the point where you're willing to show you own family the cold shoulder becuase of a temper tantrum over a gun? both you AND this family member obviously have deep seated relationship issues that need to be worked out. maybe you two should go on Dr. Phil.

    if anti gun family members come to visit, I cover my piece. family bonds are more important then petty political issues, be the higher man for god's sake.
    Wow you sound just like people who say I should just deal with an emotionally abusive and controlling MIL because she's "family". You say he should just overlook this family member's demands and give in, but yet why shouldn't that family member show him the same respect?

    If a family member comes to MY house and doesn't like something I'm willing to talk about it. If I disagree with them strongly enough on the subject, well it's my house and there's the front door. Don't come to my house and make demands from me in my own home. Likewise I'm going to show my family members the same respect when I'm at their place. If they think that they can be disrespectful and walk over me or make demands from me that I strongly disagree with, well I don't need "family" like that.

    And seriously, why do I have to be the "higher man" and give in? How about they quit being so illogical and emotional instead of always demanding that other people change. I swear I hate arguements such as yours.

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    you can't be serious?

    I deal with it by putting a piece of apparel over the gun.

    just CC at the family events and don't let it be an issue. Obviously your family member has problems with firearms, as you very much do as well. I can understand wanting to OC, but to the point where you're willing to show you own family the cold shoulder because of a temper tantrum over a gun? both you AND this family member obviously have deep seated relationship issues that need to be worked out. maybe you two should go on Dr. Phil.

    if anti gun family members come to visit, I cover my piece. family bonds are more important then petty political issues, be the higher man for god's sake.
    While the 2A is a political issue, there is nothing petty about the 2A. In essence you are advocating that a citizen abrogate their right to exercise a enumerated right due to the views of another citizen.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    you can't be serious?

    I deal with it by putting a piece of apparel over the gun.

    just CC at the family events and don't let it be an issue. Obviously your family member has problems with firearms, as you very much do as well. I can understand wanting to OC, but to the point where you're willing to show you own family the cold shoulder becuase of a temper tantrum over a gun? both you AND this family member obviously have deep seated relationship issues that need to be worked out. maybe you two should go on Dr. Phil.

    if anti gun family members come to visit, I cover my piece. family bonds are more important then petty political issues, be the higher man for god's sake.
    Yeah, that's not really known as 'dealing' with it. That's more like...abandoning your convictions for the sake of convenience.

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    In someone else house I will CC if I know it is an issue. In my own house I will do as I please. If the mere sight of a smallish gun frightens them I explain that there are coyotes out in the woods behind my house and I will not have my children stalked and killed by a coyote. That usually scares them worse than the gun and they shut it. (emotional argument for the emotional person).

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    While the 2A is a political issue, there is nothing petty about the 2A. In essence you are advocating that a citizen abrogate their right to exercise a enumerated right due to the views of another citizen.
    I'm saying that when it comes to family, sometimes taking the path of least resistance is better then causing family discord. F1Man has the right to do most whatever he wants. but my personal opinion is this, causing family problems, and then shunning other family members as a result of that, is not right. somtimes it's not about being right, it's about doing right. We're not talking about being stopped by cops or an anti-gun business owner, we're talking about a member of his own family. family should get that courtesy. cover your gun, family member will have no problem and he gets to carry his gun. simplest solution ever, and yet he wants a family feud over his "rights".

    Blood is thicker then water, don't cause discord and don't disrespect your family. be the higher man, a strong family relationship is more important then forcing everyone to see your gun everytime you visit. family should get the respect that strangers don't
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  13. #13
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Yeah, that's not really known as 'dealing' with it. That's more like...abandoning your convictions for the sake of convenience.
    No, I fully support both concealed carry and open carry, there's a time and place for both. christmas with a hoplophobe family member certainly is time for concealed. I'm not going to refuse to go a family gathering because one member of the family is uncomfortable with guns. family is not the same thing as an anti-business. you're not abandoning jack squat, unless their convictions are based in feeling powerful because of your gun or wanting to cause the most terror possible in other people, and if that's the case, that person needs help
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, I fully support both concealed carry and open carry, there's a time and place for both. christmas with a hoplophobe family member certainly is time for concealed. I'm not going to refuse to go a family gathering because one member of the family is uncomfortable with guns. family is not the same thing as an anti-business. you're not abandoning jack squat, unless their convictions are based in feeling powerful because of your gun or wanting to cause the most terror possible in other people, and if that's the case, that person needs help
    So capitulate to ONE member of the family?

    If I had a bigoted member of the family that won't stop me from bringing my other half who happens to not be white, my children who happen to be mixed, or my friends who are not the same ethnic back ground as that family member. They can go pound sand.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    So, I have a family member that hates it when I OC. She claims that it makes her uncomfortable. I pointed out that there are other people around the area that OC and she told me that those people make her uncomfortable too but that's their right. I told her that if she is so uncomfortable with OC then why do you like cops so much? She responds badly to this. She tells it me that I am just putting my gun in people's faces (if I was 10' tall that might be true I carry OC on my thigh). I said no, I am not required to have a license to OC but I need a license to CC, and besides the cops are not very well trained. (This varies from cop to cop to I know but look at New York.) I also told her that is she is so afraid of guns that she should get counseling.
    If I wish to visit with this family member I am told that I can only CC when I am out in public with her. I asked why is that? Because I said so.

    Now this is the same member of the family who came home the other night to 6 police cars stopped 2-3 (it's hard to explain) houses over walking around with 'big guns' around 2300 hours that night and then asks me if I know what they might be. I showed her my AR15 and she said they looked like that. So I told her they are likely the M4 combat rifles. Not being sure of the original question of "Do you know what guns the cops carry?" I told her it depends on the department but many of the in this state carry Glocks the same make and model I carry on my leg.

    PHP Code:
    She keeps claiming she is not anti-gun 
    but likes new guns law and hates it when people open carry because she can see their gun.
    She didn't like it when I refused to visit her one Christmas because I could not carry while visiting. She changed her mind after that because I would not visit at all if those were the conditions.

    I am former military, one brother and my sister are military and she does not trust any of us with guns.

    How do you handle family members/friends who are like that?
    Sounds pretty anti to me..
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I'm saying that when it comes to family, sometimes taking the path of least resistance is better then causing family discord. F1Man has the right to do most whatever he wants. but my personal opinion is this, causing family problems, and then shunning other family members as a result of that, is not right. somtimes it's not about being right, it's about doing right. We're not talking about being stopped by cops or an anti-gun business owner, we're talking about a member of his own family. family should get that courtesy. cover your gun, family member will have no problem and he gets to carry his gun. simplest solution ever, and yet he wants a family feud over his "rights".

    Blood is thicker then water, don't cause discord and don't disrespect your family. be the higher man, a strong family relationship is more important then forcing everyone to see your gun everytime you visit. family should get the respect that strangers don't
    It's just as easy to say that it's the family member who is shunning the person who OCs. It does go both ways. For the family member to expect the person carrying to be the sole person giving in is just as bad, and actually worse. Compromise goes both ways.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Family Members

    1. My house, my rules. If you don't like to see my firearms, don't come to my house. That goes for all family members and friends.
    2. Someone else's house, their rules. If the host/hostess and everyone else is OK with me carrying, the one hoplophobe can go butt up a stump.
    3. If the host/hostess asks me to disarm/cover up, I'll thank them for their hospitality, make my excuses, and leave. Thereafter, I will politely decline any further invitations.

    Notice that in all three scenarios, even in my own home, I would not be rude and would not make an issue of it. Fortunately, with the exception of some of my Chinese friends and family, I don't know anyone who is alarmed by the sight of my firearms. The Chinese friends and family are slowly but surely coming around to my point of view.

    In their case, it is because of coming from a society in which only the police and military have firearms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, I fully support both concealed carry and open carry, there's a time and place for both.
    For some of us, that time and place is as inalienable as the right itself. I'll support anyone carrying however they wish, but I do not support people who want my rights to 'hide' because of how they 'feel'.

    christmas with a hoplophobe family member certainly is time for concealed. I'm not going to refuse to go a family gathering because one member of the family is uncomfortable with guns.
    That is your choice, but not everyone sees it the way you do. If someone wants to spend time with me, they accept me as I am. I do not change my views or behaviors based on the company I am around.

    family is not the same thing as an anti-business.
    Depends on who your family is. Either way, no one has the right to tell me how to exercise my rights.

    you're not abandoning jack squat,
    Except for principles and the ability to choose for yourself.

    unless their convictions are based in feeling powerful because of your gun or wanting to cause the most terror possible in other people, and if that's the case, that person needs help
    ONLY in those exact scenarios, huh?

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    So, I have a family member that hates it when I OC. She claims that it makes her uncomfortable. I pointed out that there are other people around the area that OC and she told me that those people make her uncomfortable too but that's their right. I told her that if she is so uncomfortable with OC then why do you like cops so much? She responds badly to this. She tells it me that I am just putting my gun in people's faces (if I was 10' tall that might be true I carry OC on my thigh). I said no, I am not required to have a license to OC but I need a license to CC, and besides the cops are not very well trained. (This varies from cop to cop to I know but look at New York.) I also told her that is she is so afraid of guns that she should get counseling.
    If I wish to visit with this family member I am told that I can only CC when I am out in public with her. I asked why is that? Because I said so.

    Now this is the same member of the family who came home the other night to 6 police cars stopped 2-3 (it's hard to explain) houses over walking around with 'big guns' around 2300 hours that night and then asks me if I know what they might be. I showed her my AR15 and she said they looked like that. So I told her they are likely the M4 combat rifles. Not being sure of the original question of "Do you know what guns the cops carry?" I told her it depends on the department but many of the in this state carry Glocks the same make and model I carry on my leg.

    She keeps claiming she is not anti-gun but likes new guns law and hates it when people open carry because she can see their gun.
    She didn't like it when I refused to visit her one Christmas because I could not carry while visiting. She changed her mind after that because I would not visit at all if those were the conditions.

    I am former military, one brother and my sister are military and she does not trust any of us with guns.

    How do you handle family members/friends who are like that?
    Have you asked her WHY it makes her uncomfortable?
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    So capitulate to ONE member of the family?

    If I had a bigoted member of the family that won't stop me from bringing my other half who happens to not be white, my children who happen to be mixed, or my friends who are not the same ethnic back ground as that family member. They can go pound sand.
    Cept in your scenario, a racialist is more likely to tell you in advance don't come with your mixed family.

    and it's not even near the same thing. society has done a good job in convincing people guns are bad, rightly or wrongly some people will always believe that. I have some members of my family who would probably be the exact same way as F1Man's relative. Except I don't do family feud's, if the other member is being an irrational clown, I don't need to go down to their level when the solution is so simple. no matter how trivial the matter family disputes can certainly cause the other non-involved family members to take sides and destroy the nature of other family relationships as well. if your entire family open carries and everyone is cool with that then fine. but if the minority of the family open carries and it really scares the other half of the family or certain members of the family then maintaining family bonds is more important.

    My hoplophobe family members would do whatever they could to help me out if I were in trouble. the average anti-gunner will not. so if they aren't comfortable with me carrying a gun at home when they're visiting, i'll put the model 10 away and conceal my mother's glock 19 instead. disputes with family aren't worth the trouble. of course maybe F1man's relationship with that relative isn't so solid for other reasons.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    To the OP= simple. I dont even bother. I write them off to the victims of Natural Selection category.
    I've mostly given-up on the idea of trying to "educate" or "inform" folks who have made a DECISION to lack basic common-sense, on such things.
    Folks who have made up their minds on such things, are'nt likely to be convinced otherwise, unless or until they find themselves on the victim end of things.
    And even then, most of those are likely to point to that victimization (provided they somehow survive the incident, in the 1st place ) as a perfect example of WHY guns should be outlawed/banned/whatever. All the while neglecting to, or out-right refusing to- acknowledge the simple fact that they guy who is most-likely to attempt to end your life during a crime, is also less-than-likely to give a rat's backside about the "legality" of having the firearm he/she is using-which, itself, ends up having been stolen from someone else,anyway..

    If otherwise mature, educated adults lack the ability to form informed opinions, or knowledge of a matter, or simply refuse to- that's their choice, and their decision. If they are uncomfortable around me, because I can form such knowledge, oh well, they can choose to stay away from me, if they like. But I'm no longer inclined to throw my lot in with the victims of Natural Selection, just so they feel "more comfy" with my presence.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    So I told her they are likely the M4 combat rifles
    AR-15s are now "M4 COMBAT RIFLES."

    OP, you should get a job as a journalist, you might just fit right in!
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    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
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    How do you handle "stupid people"? Anti-gun but claim they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    So, I have a family member that hates it when I OC. She claims that it makes her uncomfortable. I pointed out that there are other people around the area that OC and she told me that those people make her uncomfortable too but that's their right. I told her that if she is so uncomfortable with OC then why do you like cops so much? She responds badly to this. She tells it me that I am just putting my gun in people's faces (if I was 10' tall that might be true I carry OC on my thigh). I said no, I am not required to have a license to OC but I need a license to CC, and besides the cops are not very well trained. (This varies from cop to cop to I know but look at New York.) I also told her that is she is so afraid of guns that she should get counseling.
    If I wish to visit with this family member I am told that I can only CC when I am out in public with her. I asked why is that? Because I said so.

    Now this is the same member of the family who came home the other night to 6 police cars stopped 2-3 (it's hard to explain) houses over walking around with 'big guns' around 2300 hours that night and then asks me if I know what they might be. I showed her my AR15 and she said they looked like that. So I told her they are likely the M4 combat rifles. Not being sure of the original question of "Do you know what guns the cops carry?" I told her it depends on the department but many of the in this state carry Glocks the same make and model I carry on my leg.

    She keeps claiming she is not anti-gun but likes new guns law and hates it when people open carry because she can see their gun.
    She didn't like it when I refused to visit her one Christmas because I could not carry while visiting. She changed her mind after that because I would not visit at all if those were the conditions.

    I am former military, one brother and my sister are military and she does not trust any of us with guns.

    How do you handle family members/friends who are like that?
    I've made it clear to my family that what, where, when, and how I carry a firearm is entirely up to me, except in their homes or as dictated by law. They do not get a vote. I gave them a choice - either accept it and keep your mouths shut, or don't invite me to your events.

    That's it. Any time they say something stupid, I remind them that they don't get a vote and I don't care if they like it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Have you asked her WHY it makes her uncomfortable?
    Yes. Still no answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    AR-15s are now "M4 COMBAT RIFLES."

    OP, you should get a job as a journalist, you might just fit right in!
    No, AR-15 refers only to the semi-automatic versions of the rifle. The M4 a police officer would likely be carrying, with selective fire options, would be properly defined as an assault rifle.

    Many in the gun-owning community are moving away from even using that proper term, "assault rifle", specifically due to the anti-gun politicians and mainstream media fabricating the term "assault weapon" to loosely define anything that looks cosmetically similar to a true assault rifle.

    As "battle rifle" typically denotes a military service rifle that fires a full power rifle cartridge, "combat rifle" would seem to be a decent alternative for a service rifle firing an intermediate-sized cartridge, such as the M16/M4 variants, if one wished to avoid the negative connotations and hype now attached to the word "assault".

    ETA: Personally, I'd just call it an M4.
    Last edited by ATM; 09-09-2012 at 07:03 AM.

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