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Thread: 1st case of OC'er killed for OC'ing?

  1. #1
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    1st case of OC'er killed for OC'ing?

    Saw this posted over on a glock forum.

    "from the Richmond Times Dispatch;
    Tyler, a customer at the BP station, was killed about 8:15 p.m. Friday, Nov. 25, inside the store. According to court papers, Smith and Hamiel arrived at the BP together on a single scooter and followed Tyler into the store.

    Tyler, 48, had a concealed-carry permit, but his handgun was plainly visible that night in his holster, Johnson said.

    "The suspects walk in and one immediately reached for Mr. Tyler's gun," Johnson said. Tyler did not draw his weapon.

    According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store. Authorities said they could not confirm that Tyler was killed with his own gun until they get the results of forensics testing. They also are awaiting test results to show whether the gun used to kill Tyler was the one used to shoot Cosby."

    Thoughts?

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    There is a previous thread on this...not sure where I saw this but it is old news. I don't remember how all the facts eventually shook out so I can't comment on the possibility that the guy was killed merely for OCing. There may probably have been a few other factors involved.
    Last edited by OC4me; 09-06-2012 at 01:46 PM.

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    Yea, just realized there are two previous threads on this. Sorry mods.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Can anyone find the details to this incident?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    They stole his gun, he chased them, they shot him. I wouldn't say he was killed for OCing, I would say he was targeted for his gun due to OCing and then killed for chasing after armed robbers while he was unarmed.

    Though I would still rather OC than CC. This case simply highlights the reason to have a retention holster.

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    Regular Member waterfowl woody's Avatar
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    This case highlights how not to be.

    Know your surroundings, know your ability, and know your not bullet proof!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Can anyone find the details to this incident?
    Quote Originally Posted by frogfish View Post
    Yea, just realized there are two previous threads on this. Sorry mods.
    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waterfowl woody View Post
    This case highlights how not to be.

    Know your surroundings, know your ability, and know your not bullet proof!
    Quote Originally Posted by frogfish View Post
    Yea, just realized there are two previous threads on this. Sorry mods.
    stay safel.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    And how many LEO's are killed with their own weapon every year? Several. It happens, and it happens to Concealed carriers too. As skidmark says...stay safe...I add, stay aware.

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    I think what this shows is that even OC is not 100% effecting at deterring a criminal who is determined. Nevertheless, I can't help but wonder how the perps were able to get close enough to the guy to disarm him. Maybe a case of him not being fully aware of his surroundings?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    It is an old event. Can we let the thread die a dignified death while those that are curious go use the search function to find the old threads and read them?

    If there is interest in discussing weapon retention a new thread would be a good idea.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It is an old event. Can we let the thread die a dignified death while those that are curious go use the search function to find the old threads and read them?

    If there is interest in discussing weapon retention a new thread would be a good idea.

    stay safe.
    +1

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Indeed this is very old news and likely not meriting another new thread.
    Would be more than happy to merge or link the earlier threads, but have not been able to locate them either with our search function or via goggle.

    Always was some question as to whether he was targeted because he was OCing. It was reported that they knew each other and had some disagreement. In the ensuing struggle, the gun allegedly fell out on the floor and was picked up by the shooter. Is that a gun snatch...I think not. ymmv

    In any event if it was a grab/snatch, we must compare it to the thousands (millions?) of OC events/occurrences to make a valid correlation. It seems to me that a resultant numerical ratio would look something like .00001%. I'll take those odds, particularly when a retention holster and situational awareness are added into the mix.

    What is news is the disposition of the case - it ain't over yet.

    http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2012/02/17/6127119.htm

    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...-c-ar-1694177/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Mahnarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    They stole his gun, he chased them, they shot him. I wouldn't say he was killed for OCing, I would say he was targeted for his gun due to OCing and then killed for chasing after armed robbers while he was unarmed.

    Though I would still rather OC than CC. This case simply highlights the reason to have a retention holster.
    This is one of the reasons I like my duty holster. I rides high - and it lifts up an inch before Gloria comes out.
    That extra second gives me a chance to put my elbow down and block her if someone grabs for her from behind.

    Also, the thumb break is a precise ...uhm... break. It takes many hours of practice to reach down, break it, and pull without hesitation.

    Also, also, that extra second gives me the chance to re-evaluate the scenario. [Do I pull? Don't I? - but, not long enough to be caught off guard.]

    Plus, when I carry, I know what, where, who and how of EVERYTHING!

    -The girl in the red shirt is getting a coffee.
    -The old guy in the grey shirt is scratching a lotto ticket.
    -The cashier is picking his nose.
    -The guy who just came out of the bathroom just pocketed three candy bars.
    -The guy who just walked in behind me was listening to Christian Talk on his radio as he fueled up.

    This is all realized as I walk in the door - continuing from when I pulled into the parking lot (and saw the older lady tip a beer can).

    I'm aware of everything, always.
    [Not bragging! I was scarred shitless into this state from PD training and actually having been attacked by a perp... ]
    [[I guess you could call it a form of PTSD]]

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    Re: 1st case of OC'er killed for OC'ing?

    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I think what this shows is that even OC is not 100% effecting at deterring a criminal who is determined. Nevertheless, I can't help but wonder how the perps were able to get close enough to the guy to disarm him. Maybe a case of him not being fully aware of his surroundings?
    Poetically a case of no retention though. Anyone know what holster he was using? Mt thought is a G'Code, Serpa or a Safariland ALS would not have allowed this.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPOProds View Post
    Poetically a case of no retention though. Anyone know what holster he was using? Mt thought is a G'Code, Serpa or a Safariland ALS would not have allowed this.
    As I recall he did not use a retention holster, typically CCd, OCd on a whim that night for the first time. Got into a scuffle with someone he knew, gun fell out, he was shot.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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