Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 70

Thread: Gary Johnson can fix the America the two party system has broken.

  1. #1
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489

    Gary Johnson can fix the America the two party system has broken.

    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  2. #2
    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Leeds, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    786
    God I hope so.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

  3. #3
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I dont think he can.

    In order to dramatically change America we need at least 50% of congress to be libertarians and at least 50% of the supreme court.

    Thats not going to happen.
    I don't know. If you get someone in there who really isn't aiming to play the game but to make real change I think public pressure can go a very long way.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  4. #4
    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    300

    Idea?

    Gary Johnson is really someone with terrific views. He would be excellent as a President, but alas, he will NOT win. He was originally a Republican, so how about this as an idea? Let's work to elect Romney, but let's make it known to Mitt that we want a "significant" role for Gary in his administration. I don't just mean token, but significant. Remember, we can't get major things accomplished overnight, but perhaps in 10 years with small consistent steps, we can.

  5. #5
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    As of right now I dont think its possible with simply a libertarian president.

    Right now only about 10% or less of Americans are libertarians.

    Congress has only a handfull of libertarians.

    The senate has maybe 1.
    None of that means anything to me. I don't vote along any party lines. I'm not voting for a Libertarian. I'm voting for a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    Gary Johnson is really someone with terrific views. He would be excellent as a President, but alas, he will NOT win. He was originally a Republican, so how about this as an idea? Let's work to elect Romney, but let's make it known to Mitt that we want a "significant" role for Gary in his administration. I don't just mean token, but significant. Remember, we can't get major things accomplished overnight, but perhaps in 10 years with small consistent steps, we can.
    This is the kind of back-room "politics" that make me sick. I would never make a deal to get "my guy" a good position. Romney is a nightmare and I can't inflicted him on this country voluntarily.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  6. #6
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I dont think he can.

    In order to dramatically change America we need at least 50% of congress to be libertarians and at least 50% of the supreme court.

    Thats not going to happen.
    But you can have your sweet little dreams, can't you?!
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  7. #7
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    41
    Unfortunately, a third party candidate would have little chance of winning the election. In a way, a vote for any third party candidate is a vote for Obama. The next President will be appointing at least one justice to the Supreme Court, probably two or three. The thought of Obama appointing more Supreme Court Justices should be enough to make any freedom loving American vote for Romney. Supreme Court Justice are appointed for life and having the wrong folks appointed could have a devastating effect on our rights and laws.
    Colt Single Action Army - The original point and click interface.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    In order to dramatically change America we need at least 50% of congress to be libertarians and at least 50% of the supreme court.
    Actually, we don't.

    All executive power in the federal government rests solely with the President.

    Congress can pass all the laws they wish, and override the President's veto to make it official, but they can't make him enforce such laws.

    All spending bills must originate in the House; the Congress can authorize trillions in spending, but only the President can actually write the check.

    All the courts from SCOTUS on down can issue rulings and warrants, but only the chief executive has authority to act on those. If the President refuses to lock someone up just because the congress and courts say so, there's nothing they can do to force him to act. Likewise, if he decides to free everyone convicted of victimless drug or firearms charges, the courts may jump up and down, and the congress may rage, but they can't stop him.

    We often hear about this or that "Constitutional crisis". Pffft. We haven't seen a real constitutional crises since Marbury v. Madison, and with few exceptions everyone just rolled over and accepted that one.

  9. #9
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 45LC View Post
    Unfortunately, a third party candidate would have little chance of winning the election. In a way, a vote for any third party candidate is a vote for Obama. The next President will be appointing at least one justice to the Supreme Court, probably two or three. The thought of Obama appointing more Supreme Court Justices should be enough to make any freedom loving American vote for Romney. Supreme Court Justice are appointed for life and having the wrong folks appointed could have a devastating effect on our rights and laws.
    Ha you think Romney is "freedom loving"? Incredible.

    If Johnson looses this election it will be because Romney stole so many of his votes. A vote for Romney is a vote for Obama!
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  10. #10
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Ha you think Romney is "freedom loving"? Incredible.

    If Johnson looses this election it will be because Romney stole so many of his votes. A vote for Romney is a vote for Obama!
    I did not say Romney was freedom loving. Romney would not have been my first choice. But because a third party doesn't really have a chance of winning the election, Romney is the only choice, unless you want Obama appointing Supreme Court Justices and creating havoc for the next four years. Unfortunately, because most Americans have never even heard of Gary Johnson, he doesn't have a chance of winning this election...Maybe you don't like it but that's reality. A president is only in for no more than two four year terms. A Supreme Court Justice is appointed for life. A president is limited to damage he can do in his term because of congress. I'm sure that if Romney is elected, he will not do anything against 2A rights while in office, knowing who put him there. Can't say the same for Obama. Before anyone says it, Yes, this is picking the lesser of two evils but sometimes in life it's necessary to do that...especially when it comes to politics.
    Colt Single Action Army - The original point and click interface.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Apache Junction, AZ
    Posts
    98
    Man you anybody but Obama types sure are gullible. Mittens is a joke.. I dislike Obummer, but Mittens is a white copy of Obama. I find it funny that people harp on Obama for being Muslim at one point, yet like Mittens who belongs to a cult. I find it funny people will vote Mittens to get rid of Obamacare, yet Mittens designed it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1868385.html Mittens admits he would keep parts of the law in effect.. Of course he would. I find it funny the only thing Mittens has to run on is the fear of Obama... Not that he is better, or has better ideas... Hes running on your fear... lol

    The best part is how the GOP treated Ron Paul Republicans like crap... Now they are begging us to vote for Mittens... I see it all over the web.. Funny what part of we are not voting for Mittens didn't you get...

    Obama will win in Nov.. The GOP dropped the ball hard this time... I'm hopping it will fracture the GOP, and we can finely end this 2 party rule.

    Whats sad is when Mittens loses in Nov. They will blame Ron Paul... Not the RINO's that have been destroying this country just as bad as the Dems... Or the GOP's cheating the whole election cycle... Oh well... At least when Obama wins we can try again in 2016.

  12. #12
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA; escaped from 18 years in TX
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Romney needs to be that person, not Obama.
    Because Roberts and Alito have worked out so well.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Leeds, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    786
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 45LC View Post
    Unfortunately, a third party candidate would have little chance of winning the election. In a way, a vote for any third party candidate is a vote for Obama.
    Can you please give some evidence that this is so? It's not like the incumbent automagically wins if there's no clear majority. If you agree that the majority of Americans don't want Obama, then why shouldn't they vote third party? The majority of Americans also don't want Romney. What's the point of voting for someone that most of us don't want in office, just to keep out someone else that most of us don't want in office?
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

  14. #14
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA; escaped from 18 years in TX
    Posts
    740
    Again, Republicans seem to think they get to lay claim to the votes of people who give a crap about liberty. The reality is that they would be just as justified in claiming that a vote for a write-in, independent, or third-party candidate is a vote for Romney.

    Dear Republicans,
    You have never had my vote. You have never been my fall-back. You're equally as detestable as the "other" guys.
    Love,
    Me

  15. #15
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA; escaped from 18 years in TX
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    In regards to gun rights they have.
    I was not aware that gun rights is the only thing that matters, or even the most important thing that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Explain what votes you didnt like where Kagan and Sotomayor voted better.
    You persist in this myopia. I don't like either of them either. We have you and your kind to thank that these are the Supreme Court justices we get. Good work, citizen.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Again, Republicans seem to think they get to lay claim to the votes of people who give a crap about liberty. The reality is that they would be just as justified in claiming that a vote for a write-in, independent, or third-party candidate is a vote for Romney.

    Dear Republicans,
    You have never had my vote. You have never been my fall-back. You're equally as detestable as the "other" guys.
    Love,
    Me
    My sentiments exactly.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Slidell, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,464
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    SNIP
    In regards to Romney vs Obama and the SCOTUS, just remember that Ruth Ginsbgerg is 90 yrs old and has cancer. She will die or leave the bench in the next 4 years. That means we have a HUGE opportunity to take a seat back IF.........IF.........IF.....and ONLY IF we have a conservative president to nominate the next justice.
    I'm sorry... you're saying Romney is a conservative? Really?! Romney isn't even saying that! What he does say, of course, doesn't matter because he changes his position so often...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Romney needs to be that person, not Obama.

    A vote for Johnson for symbolic purposes at this time would be a monumental waste and missed opportunity to get a conservative justice for the next 40 years.
    Romney conservative... now that's funny!! LOL!!!!

  18. #18
    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Dear Republicans,
    You have never had my vote. You have never been my fall-back. You're equally as detestable as the "other" guys.
    Love,
    Me
    +1 Awesome.
    Though you can throw dems in there as well.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  19. #19
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone Baritone View Post
    Can you please give some evidence that this is so? It's not like the incumbent automagically wins if there's no clear majority. If you agree that the majority of Americans don't want Obama, then why shouldn't they vote third party? The majority of Americans also don't want Romney. What's the point of voting for someone that most of us don't want in office, just to keep out someone else that most of us don't want in office?
    Yes, I can or maybe I should say history can. No third party candidate has won a US presidential election since Abraham Lincoln in 1864. The closest in the past 100 years was Teddy Roosevelt in 1912, won by Wilson.

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/10...fect-elections
    Colt Single Action Army - The original point and click interface.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Leeds, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    786
    And in the 1912 election, it was clear where the voter split occurred. Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but I see a lot of 2008 Obama supporters who aren't impressed with the last 4 years. I also personally know people who normally vote third party who took a chance with Obama in 2008 and learned their lesson. I see Johnson picking up a lot of former Obama supporters. I don't see Obama keeping the support he had, because he didn't live up to a lot of "special interest" expectations. For instance, the Libertarian party probably looks pretty attractive to a 2008 supporter disgusted by Obama's lackluster, Johnny-come-lately stance on Gay and Lesbian rights.

    Then, on the other side of the coin, the Republicans themselves claimed for much of the primary season that the Paul supporters weren't "real" Republicans. Supposedly they were all Libertarians who had "infiltrated" "legitimate" GOP events to support their "radical" candidate. That's a lot of third party support that the Republicans never really had to begin with.

    What I'm saying is, this time the "voter split" is going to happen on both sides of the aisle. I could easily see the general election splitting roughly into thirds. (Well, realistically more like 40/40/10, but the point still stands.)

    Edit: And if the popular vote did split into thirds, what would the electoral college do? If they can't determine a clear winner, doesn't it go to the (Majority Republican) House of Representatives to decide? If they can't decide, wouldn't that put Biden into office? Seems like it could be a very interesting election, if people allow themselves to break from their self-imposed servitude. Or we could have the same old same, and continue the slow march along the path the Romans laid out for us.
    Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 09-10-2012 at 03:18 AM.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone Baritone View Post
    I don't see Obama keeping the support he had, .
    Turnout for him will not be as high ... much last time was to do with electing a black person...

    I knew before that a black person would become pres. before a woman....

  22. #22
    Regular Member Chris 45LC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    41
    I agree, a lot of Democrats are not happy with Obama and many Republicans are not happy with their party. However, I believe that only a president that changes to a third party for his second term and is well liked and trusted by the majority of Americans (such as Lincoln in 1864 and Roosevelt in 1912) would have a chance of winning on a third party ticket. History has proven this to be the case.
    Colt Single Action Army - The original point and click interface.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA; escaped from 18 years in TX
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris 45LC View Post
    History has proven this to be the case.
    You need to understand history better. It would have been more accurate to say

    Historically, this has been the case.
    The distinction is tremendous, and has a huge impact on the way you think. In any case, I do agree that, historically, there have been too few people with principles and spines willing to buck their riders.

  24. #24
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Seattle, WA; escaped from 18 years in TX
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Do you have any justices now or in the past that you can show as examples of what you consider as acceptable ?
    Here's the root of the problem, and why your adherence to the lesser-of-two-evils canard is so destructive. With increased government (and, thus, government power) comes increased injustice due to increased government behavior. The less government does, the fewer laws there are for the Supreme Court to review. The less government does, the less special interest-subservient the President is, and the less special interest-subservient and pro-government the Supreme Court justices are. Unfortunately, you and yours have decided it's better to pick someone who seems infinitesimally less horrible to you who will still grow the size and power of government, which continually makes Presidents and Congressmen and Justices more and more powerful and unjust. I could identify Justices who were at least decent, but none in the last century, and we will never have even a decent Justice nominated by a Republican or Democrat, because the people those parties nominate are not interested in appointing decent Justices. You are perpetuating the continual destruction of liberty at the hands of the Executive, Judicial, and Legislative branches with your "I'd rather you raped me in the mouth than the ass" mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    I dont know much about you so I am just trying to get an idea of how the current justices like Roberts or Alito are bad and give me an example of a good justice.
    One example of both Roberts and Alito being atrocious: their willing and servile support for qualified immunity for police and total immunity for prosecutors, legal "principles" that were invented of whole cloth by the Supreme Court, under "conservative" court makeups. This travesty is monumentally more significant than any 2A concerns we might talk about.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    In My Coffee
    Posts
    5,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Can you cite a case ?
    Here's a bone:

    The unanimous ruling, authored by Justice Samuel Alito, says police and everyone else who testifies before a grand jury have "absolute immunity" from any civil-rights claims stemming from their testimony.
    Moreover, Alito said, "this rule may not be circumvented by claiming that a grand jury witness conspired to present false testimony or by using evidence of the witness' testimony to support any other [civil rights] claim concerning the initiation or maintenance of a prosecution." http://www.news-record.com/content/2..._lacrosse_case
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •