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Thread: Attempted Media Back-Lash for local Robbery suspect shooting by CWP citizen..

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    Attempted Media Back-Lash for local Robbery suspect shooting by CWP citizen..

    A sort of follow-up to the Dollar-General store shooting, by a licensed CWP citizen of one of 2 armed (with airsoft pistols.. ) robbers, that I'd posted earlier.
    Local response to this shooting, even by LEO's has been over-whelmingly postive, supportive of 2A advocates, etc. However, local media has been trying, desperately, to throw thier usual spin on it, and turn it into a "VIGILANTES RUN AMOK" -type issue.

    The local, die-hard communist/anti-2A types, as usual, "stick to their guns" on their stance,but are ,thankfully, out-numbered here.

    So, here's an editorial for the local Communist bird-cage-liner of a "paper". Understand, going in that the paper, and it's writers and editorialist are blatantly anti-2a/private gun-owner to begin with. But,thought I'd post it for info.
    Thoughts? Opinions?

    http://www.folioweekly.com/folio0904wkl004.php

    Old West Justice?

    Guns drawn at the Dollar General

    Written by Denise Reagan

    Published September 4, 2012

    Last week, two young men walked into a Dollar General store around 9:20 p.m. and pointed two CO2 BB pistols that looked like handguns at the two employees. They wanted money.

    One of them escaped and was arrested the next day. The other never left the store. He was shot and killed by a customer.

    That customer had stopped at the store on his way home from work that Monday night. His wife had given the 57-year-old business owner and grandfather a list of groceries to pick up on his way home.


    Excerpt ... Read the rest at the link above
    Last edited by John Pierce; 09-09-2012 at 11:21 AM.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    One of the more sickening recent editorials. The writer never touches on how realistic airsoft pistols look or that the customer may have, had the pistols been real, saved several lives, to include his own.

    I hope I never have to take a human life, but I just as devoutly hope that, if it ever comes down to a situation similar to this one, that I have the courage and steadiness to do what is necessary.

    Vigilante? The writer needs to look up a definition of the word. This grandfather does not fit the definition at all.

    From Wikipedia (not the best source, but I'm in a hurry):

    A vigilante (Spanish pronunciation: [bixiˈlănte̞], Portuguese pronunciation: [viʒiˈlɐ̃nt(ɕ)]) is a private individual (or (pl.) group of individuals) who undertakes law enforcement without legal authority.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    One of the more sickening recent editorials. The writer never touches on how realistic airsoft pistols look or that the customer may have, had the pistols been real, saved several lives, to include his own.

    I hope I never have to take a human life, but I just as devoutly hope that, if it ever comes down to a situation similar to this one, that I have the courage and steadiness to do what is necessary.

    Vigilante? The writer needs to look up a definition of the word. This grandfather does not fit the definition at all.

    From Wikipedia (not the best source, but I'm in a hurry):

    A vigilante (Spanish pronunciation: [bixiˈlănte̞], Portuguese pronunciation: [viʒiˈlɐ̃nt(ɕ)]) is a private individual (or (pl.) group of individuals) who undertakes law enforcement without legal authority.


    Indeed, Top, indeed.
    As an aside-un-related- noticed the qoute-
    What's your preferred shotty and load, Top?

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Maverick Model 88 (Mossberg by another name) with either #4 buck or Federal Premium 00 buck Law Enforcement.

    Where I live, and the way my home is situated, neither load poses a danger to my neighbors. The pistols are to buy me time to reach the shotgun and, yes, I practice with all of them. At my age, and with my eyes, I am not about to be a world-class pistol shot.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    That editorial was difficult to read. It's obviously the citizens fault that the criminals were shot. Another case of it being morally superior to be a victim than to stand up and take action when someone decides that you ae an easy target.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    i thought this phrase was interesting. Quote;" the two men were desperate enough or stupid enough to add guns to a crime".

    typical progressive hype. it wasn't the two robbers fault that they had to resort to robbery. no it was society's fault that they had to do it. give me a break. they would have probably used the money to buy real guns for the next time.

    too bad it won't be the author to this article that gets robbed
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    I thought it said, they had co2 bb pistol and not air soft. Any air soft I seen had the orange tip on them and the bb guns dont.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    I thought it said, they had co2 bb pistol and not air soft. Any air soft I seen had the orange tip on them and the bb guns dont.
    The key there is "supposed to have an orange tip". I will bet my last dollar that the little street thugs who can't get the real thing will paint those orange tips. At that point, BB pistol or airsoft is virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

    What the citizen saw was someone holding a gun, real or not, on an innocent party. I would imagine his adrenaline level shot out the roof.

    I can't make my brain do the gymnastics necessary to find fault with the citizen. He did what he had to do and with more restraint than a lot of people would have shown.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    “People are afraid. We need police officers on the street,” she said, making her case for allowing the sheriff to carry over $10.5 million in savings from this year’s budget and use it in the fiscal year starting Oct. 1.

    Having an armed police officer on every street corner is not most people's idea of what America should look like...Sounds like the councilmember wants what you'd see in a police state with officers on every corner with a machine gun.
    Colt Single Action Army - The original point and click interface.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    He wasn't a "vigilante" i'm beating a dead horse while preaching to the choir, but he didn't hunt down these robbers and kill them without sanction of the law, he used reasonable force to stop an armed felony in progress. if the stupid kid with the BB gun had dropped his BB gun he'd still be breathing. why in the heck would you point a BB gun at a guy holding a real one knowing full well your gun ain't an actual firearm?

    Hey I'm all for properly funding the sheriff's department and letting him hold over his budget savings, but there is nothing to suggest that would've prevented this incident. unless you're going to put a deputy in ever corner store, and there are far many more minimarts in my part of the county then there are patrol deputies in the patrol section on shift. even if the sheriff's department doubled in size there is no way a cop can be everywhere at the same time a crime is happening.

    I can understand in a perfect world we would simply dial 911 and call in the cavalry and let them deal with criminals, but when we're here in reality the truth is until the cops show up you're on your own and in most cases the incident will be over with someone dead or badly hurt by the time the first cruiser rolls on scene. the question is? will you be dead/beaten or will your attacker?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    He wasn't a "vigilante" i'm beating a dead horse while preaching to the choir, but he didn't hunt down these robbers and kill them without sanction of the law, he used reasonable force to stop an armed felony in progress. if the stupid kid with the BB gun had dropped his BB gun he'd still be breathing. why in the heck would you point a BB gun at a guy holding a real one knowing full well your gun ain't an actual firearm?

    Hey I'm all for properly funding the sheriff's department and letting him hold over his budget savings, but there is nothing to suggest that would've prevented this incident. unless you're going to put a deputy in ever corner store, and there are far many more minimarts in my part of the county then there are patrol deputies in the patrol section on shift. even if the sheriff's department doubled in size there is no way a cop can be everywhere at the same time a crime is happening.

    I can understand in a perfect world we would simply dial 911 and call in the cavalry and let them deal with criminals, but when we're here in reality the truth is until the cops show up you're on your own and in most cases the incident will be over with someone dead or badly hurt by the time the first cruiser rolls on scene. the question is? will you be dead/beaten or will your attacker?


    Good points- like I mentioned in the other thread about this case, that store is only a couple blocks down, and across the street from THE police sub-station for this sector. You could'nt possibly be dumb enough to try to pull off such a robbery in an area in this town that is any MORE infested with cops. You cant sneeze without giving a cop a shower in that area. So "more cops" in the area would'nt have made a bit of difference,short of one being on-the-scene already.

    I spoke last nite to one of the Deputies who happened to have responded to this case, and while he could'nt/would'nt comment too much on it, he did say that the citizen did everything "right" ,under his circumstances,and that more CWP citizens needed to be out there, and more of them needed to stand up like this,when the situation calls for it.

    So, I popped The Question- "what about OC citizens, instead of, or in addition to?" (we dont yet have OC here).
    His reply, was "even better, had those two boneheads walked in, and possibly seen a citizen with a REAL gun, out in plain view-they may have had enough sense to turn around and walk back out the door, instead of getting shot"

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    That needs to be trimmed so it's not infringing copyright. (Forum rule 11.)
    Old West Justice?
    No, it's the logical consequence of pointing a gun at someone: you get shot.

    When the manager alerted the customer what was happening, the customer walked to the front of the store, pulled out his concealed .45-caliber handgun about 5 feet from the suspects and ordered the two men to drop their weapons.
    So the manager knew the customer, knew he was armed, knew he could handle the problem.
    Might even have notified the customer before calling 911.
    And the customer gave the little punks more of a chance than the law required.

    The customer fired three times, apparently hitting the suspect twice, and Odoms died at the scene of wounds to his head, chest and shoulder.
    Hit him twice, died of 3 wounds?

    City Councilmember Denise Lee described the incident at a recent council meeting. “We have vigilantes out there”
    They very well may. But this guy isn't one of them.

    $10.5 million for the Sheriff's department?
    Wonder how many citizens that money could train, if not actually arm.

    Schoonover said the manager and clerk in the store could have been harmed. Yes, they could have been harmed by the customer with the .45-caliber handgun.
    Completely ignoring the CRIMINALS who both (apparently) had guns pointed at people.
    What about that near-certain harm?

    it doesn’t always work out that way, even when professionals are doing the shooting. Earlier this month, nine bystanders were wounded by police gunfire, ricochets and fragments while police were trying to stop [name redacted] who had just killed a former co-worker in front of the Empire State Building in New York City.
    Sounds like those 'pros' need to spend more time practicing, like that citizen who's a competitive shooter. Wonder how hard it would be to require LEO to participate in IDPA or IPSC (or GSSF, etc.) once a month?

    Many have posited that if someone besides [name redacted] had been carrying a gun in that Aurora, Colo., movie theater on July 20, fewer people would have been killed or wounded. Or it could have been much worse.
    How much worse could it be?!?!
    What was it, 70 people killed or injured? And all the crowd could do was run or hide until the killer ran out of ammo or his gun jammed or he got bored or the police arrived.

    Most law enforcement professionals tell people “don’t be a hero” when faced with an armed robber. It’s better to lose your money than your life.
    Excuse me? You're facing an armed robber. That's a threat to your life. There's no guarantee that by being a compliant little victim you're going to come out alive. Nowadays, they'll kill you for 'fun'.

    the enormous supply and ease of buying guns makes the United States more dangerous than countries where firearms have more restrictions.
    You mean like Britain, where the rate of violent crime surpassed that of the USA sometime in the 90s & has stayed that way since? Or Australia, where the rate of violent crime went up after the government gun grab (from good, honest, law-abiding citizens)?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal
    So the manager knew the customer, knew he was armed, knew he could handle the problem.
    Might even have notified the customer before calling 911.
    And the customer gave the little punks more of a chance than the law required.
    what alarms me is that the manager blew the CCers cover right there though. I cant say I'd be anxious to get involved in an armed robbery in progress If I can take cover and avoid it. That's a dangerous game. Now Mas Ayoob likes to tell a story of an NYPD officer who was killed in a robbery off duty becuase he walked into a store being robbed and counterman yelled "my god you're a cop do something" in that case the robbers were not armed with just BB guns.

    If I were CCing (which I can't yet becuase i'm not 21, stupid WA state law ruining my fun ) I would rather the counterman not know, that way if I get involved I can be more flexible on the reaction. if two robbers walk in and don't know i'm armed, they'll probably yell a threat to me and then focus on cleaning the register. I can then time my reaction and act when i got the most advantage, if the clerk yells "Erik, get your gun and stop these people!" now I have no choice, I must outdraw and shoot them or i'm dead meat.

    just my $00.02
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    I thought it said, they had co2 bb pistol
    that makes all the difference CO2, while being basically stable, will displace the oxygen and can kill you via this route .... surprised the anti-gunners don't use this logic ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    The key there is "supposed to have an orange tip". I will bet my last dollar that the little street thugs who can't get the real thing will paint those orange tips. At that point, BB pistol or airsoft is virtually indistinguishable from the real thing.

    What the citizen saw was someone holding a gun, real or not, on an innocent party. I would imagine his adrenaline level shot out the roof.

    I can't make my brain do the gymnastics necessary to find fault with the citizen. He did what he had to do and with more restraint than a lot of people would have shown.

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