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Could the fire burn down WTC?

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PFC HALE

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Except it was a 757-222 which is maybe a third the size of a 747. with how fragile airplane bodies actually are, I doubt there'd be anything left, except for some aluminum shards and a couple steel widgets and maybe some engine components, there really wouldn't be anything resembling a piece of a plane though.


apologies, a 64 ton aircraft would certainly leave enough to resemble an aircraft after a crash. I mean heck the space shuttle blew up over the atlantic and it had enough fuel to obliterate the shuttle and then fall to the bottom of the ocean, they recovered enough to make what appeared to be a shuttle at least that is what it looked to me...

i refuse to believe that 64 tons of aluminum and steel or something bigger or smaller would just dissapear on impact. there will be plenty of material left to identify what it was.
 

Freedom1Man

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apologies, a 64 ton aircraft would certainly leave enough to resemble an aircraft after a crash. I mean heck the space shuttle blew up over the atlantic and it had enough fuel to obliterate the shuttle and then fall to the bottom of the ocean, they recovered enough to make what appeared to be a shuttle at least that is what it looked to me...

i refuse to believe that 64 tons of aluminum and steel or something bigger or smaller would just dissapear on impact. there will be plenty of material left to identify what it was.

I would have to agree with you.

[video=youtube;IjDBmyKsHJw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjDBmyKsHJw[/video]
 

Tawnos

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This thread... it's full of derp!

What makes any of you think that there's any reason this is a conspiracy orchestrated by the government? And to what end? I mean, if the government could orchestrate a conspiracy at the massive level you're positing (despite the heaps of evidence showing that the conspiracy theorists are flat out wrong), what was the end goal? I've heard Iraq, yet we couldn't even find WMDs nor plant them to make it look like we did... that seems a lot easier than a conspiracy that would involve thousands of people.

And what do you tell the families of everyone who lost family members on those flights, including the one in the Pentagon and Pennsylvania? "Sorry, your family member never existed."

Seriously, is there one scrap or iota of evidence that your conspiracy idiocy is even remotely plausible? But you think I'm the idiot for believing the "official" story... You know, the explanation the vast majority of people recognize as "what happened"?
 

Tawnos

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apologies, a 64 ton aircraft would certainly leave enough to resemble an aircraft after a crash. I mean heck the space shuttle blew up over the atlantic and it had enough fuel to obliterate the shuttle and then fall to the bottom of the ocean, they recovered enough to make what appeared to be a shuttle at least that is what it looked to me...

i refuse to believe that 64 tons of aluminum and steel or something bigger or smaller would just dissapear on impact. there will be plenty of material left to identify what it was.

You're absolutely right, there would be lots of bits and pieces. And we have pictures of those, such as http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml]this link I posted earlier[/url]
 

Freedom1Man

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This thread... it's full of derp!

What makes any of you think that there's any reason this is a conspiracy orchestrated by the government? And to what end? I mean, if the government could orchestrate a conspiracy at the massive level you're positing (despite the heaps of evidence showing that the conspiracy theorists are flat out wrong), what was the end goal? I've heard Iraq, yet we couldn't even find WMDs nor plant them to make it look like we did... that seems a lot easier than a conspiracy that would involve thousands of people.

And what do you tell the families of everyone who lost family members on those flights, including the one in the Pentagon and Pennsylvania? "Sorry, your family member never existed."

Seriously, is there one scrap or iota of evidence that your conspiracy idiocy is even remotely plausible? But you think I'm the idiot for believing the "official" story... You know, the explanation the vast majority of people recognize as "what happened"?


The only people that we know died for sure were those who were in the Towers.
I don't know anyone who died the alleged plane crashes.
Another question comes up, why were the Israelies who where known to be involved released and their involvement covered up? (If you don't think this happens look at the USS Liberty event.)

Why was building 7 'pulled' (that means it was rigged with explosives and "blown up")? That takes days/weeks to get explosives rigged to bring down a building like that.

Why was congress on record saying "Those responsible want to take away your rights."? Then they pushed the "patriot act" right through the system and got it passed. What did that do? It took away our rights. Geez and people wonder why we don't trust the government.

What was the Bin Laden family doing at the time of the 'attacks' ? They were chilling out on the Bush ranch.
Where did Bin Laden get U.S. weapons? We gave them to him when we helped him build up his organization.

So even if it was not the government as a whole who was behind those 'attacks' there were at least members of it behind it either letting it happen or making it happen.
 

Freedom1Man

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This thread... it's full of derp!

What makes any of you think that there's any reason this is a conspiracy orchestrated by the government? And to what end? I mean, if the government could orchestrate a conspiracy at the massive level you're positing (despite the heaps of evidence showing that the conspiracy theorists are flat out wrong), what was the end goal? I've heard Iraq, yet we couldn't even find WMDs nor plant them to make it look like we did... that seems a lot easier than a conspiracy that would involve thousands of people.

And what do you tell the families of everyone who lost family members on those flights, including the one in the Pentagon and Pennsylvania? "Sorry, your family member never existed."

Seriously, is there one scrap or iota of evidence that your conspiracy idiocy is even remotely plausible? But you think I'm the idiot for believing the "official" story... You know, the explanation the vast majority of people recognize as "what happened"?

Same reason the Roman government had it's agents knifing people the street blaming Christians. (to keep the Roman government in power)
The same reason Hitler burned the Reistag. (to invade Poland)
The same reason we allowed Israel to attack the USS Liberty. (To give us an excuse to attack Egypt)
The same reason the CIA was planning to do this with a fake airplane or cruise ship and blame the attack on Cuba. (So we could attack/invade the USSR friendly Cuba)

To get the population to back an invasion and attack on a foreign country. To create a 'boogy man' that the population could hate.
To blame Emmanuel Goldstein and get everyone to back an assault on what ever country was supposed to be hiding him. (If you don't understand the Emmanuel Goldstein reference then please read the book "1984".)

Edit:

I hope that answers your question of 'to what end'.
Also read the booklet "War is a Racket" it would help answer the question even better.
 
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j4l

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Anyone who thinks the government is capable of elaborate conspiracies has not worked long enough the government and alongside clandestine agencies and units. The government and military has problems completing the most simplest of tasks not to mention elaborate conspiracies.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

^100% correct. Most agencies -including our CIA/FBI/etc etc can hardly manage to organize a bake-sale without it leaking to everyone.
Need any proof of this? Apply for, and work for a Fed/State agency of your choice, and just sort of watch things for a day or two. You'll be laughing as hard as we are @ the conspiracy whackaloons out there in no time.

As for the building in the OP? No, no worries at all. Next time you find yourself in a sky-scraper, and a catastrophic fire breaks out- just stay put. You are perfectly safe.. :banghead: :banghead:
 

Tawnos

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The only people that we know died for sure were those who were in the Towers.
I don't know anyone who died the alleged plane crashes.
Another question comes up, why were the Israelies who where known to be involved released and their involvement covered up? (If you don't think this happens look at the USS Liberty event.)

Why was building 7 'pulled' (that means it was rigged with explosives and "blown up")? That takes days/weeks to get explosives rigged to bring down a building like that.

Why was congress on record saying "Those responsible want to take away your rights."? Then they pushed the "patriot act" right through the system and got it passed. What did that do? It took away our rights. Geez and people wonder why we don't trust the government.

What was the Bin Laden family doing at the time of the 'attacks' ? They were chilling out on the Bush ranch.
Where did Bin Laden get U.S. weapons? We gave them to him when we helped him build up his organization.

So even if it was not the government as a whole who was behind those 'attacks' there were at least members of it behind it either letting it happen or making it happen.

conspiracy_theories.png


You should go tell the families of these people they didn't exist or die.

Same with this group.

Building 7 was "pulled", meaning, "pull our people out of there, it's coming down like 1 & 2 did". Why would a fireman ever use a term as it would be related to demolitions, and not as it's used in... I dunno, firefighting?

You're right that it would take days/weeks to set up explosives for demolition. Not only would it require weeks to set up, it would require significant effort and be easily noticed. And in all the time since then, not a single person would have come forward with more than conspiracy bullshiat? Not one person who would have had to been in on this massive effort, nor one member of the cleanup crew found any of what would be significant evidence left behind when a building is explosively demolished? Seriously, the more you actually think about this, the crazier the grand conspiracy grows.
 

Grim_Night

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making a mental note of which forum members that participated in this thread that are conspiracy theorists and to not get into any kind of discussion or debate with them...
 

Brimstone Baritone

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I don't think I've ever gotten into a discussion with you, but I don't really care if I'm on your "list" or not. :p


The American government has lied to its people in the past. This is a provable fact, not open to debate. Isn't it then reasonable to assume that the government has lied about other things, that haven't yet been proven?

So when confronted with the idea that the government has lied to us about the events that happened on 9/11/01, is it really a stretch to believe that not everything that we have been told is true? Some people, like me, are content to leave it at that. I know the government lies to me, and I don't really care which statements are lies and which are truth, because it doesn't affect my day to day life. Some people have put considerable time and effort into trying to uncover which statements are lies. I may not agree with their findings, but to decry the effort as useless really is really small-minded.
 

EMNofSeattle

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The only people that we know died for sure were those who were in the Towers.
I don't know anyone who died the alleged plane crashes.
Another question comes up, why were the Israelies who where known to be involved released and their involvement covered up? (If you don't think this happens look at the USS Liberty event.)

So you're saying that the families of the passengers on flights 77 and 93 are all plants or that those people are in indefinite captivity at some secret facility somewhere? any proof of this?

Why was building 7 'pulled' (that means it was rigged with explosives and "blown up")? That takes days/weeks to get explosives rigged to bring down a building like that.

First off, the term "pull" in the demolition sense involves a process in which minimal or no explosives are used to weaken a building, and then large steel cables used to "pull" the buildings support beams out of place resulting in collapse. not a traditional controlled implosion demolition. Building 6 in the WTC complex was in fact "pulled" as it was heavily damaged, 4 steel cables attached to excavators pulled the corner support columns out of the 9 story building. the WTC 7 was too large to "pull" as a demolition crew would think of it.

Second off, the "pull it" controversy comes from WTC owner Larry Silverstien talking about a conversation with a fire commander, neither party is in the business of demolitions, second off the conversation was revealed in a LIVE tv interview in which he said that. you think someone who was involved in such a huge conspiracy would f*** up that bad on PBS? yeah ok

Why was congress on record saying "Those responsible want to take away your rights."? Then they pushed the "patriot act" right through the system and got it passed. What did that do? It took away our rights. Geez and people wonder why we don't trust the government.

There are plenty of reasons to be opposed to the patriot act, that is a completely separate topic

What was the Bin Laden family doing at the time of the 'attacks' ? They were chilling out on the Bush ranch.
Where did Bin Laden get U.S. weapons? We gave them to him when we helped him build up his organization.

No, we didn't. We armed the indigenous Mujhadeen forces, who were actively resisting a Soviet Invasion in the 1980s. we supplied weapons such as .50 caliber machine guns and Stinger SAM missiles to neutralize the effectiveness of helicopter born Soviet spec-ops forces. we also provided ammo and training to said mujahadeen militias WHO WERE DEFENDING THEIR HOMELAND not committing terrorist attacks. This was never earmarked for foriegn militants like Bin laden, who funded his activities in that war through his inherited fortune for being a member of the Saudi Royal Family. while american agents supervised the equipping of Afghan militias, procurement was done through Paki officials. while it is possibly Ladens groups were funded by the pakistanis, this was never sanctioned or requested by the US Government.

And there is no evidence I can find of the allegation Bin laden's family was at Chapel Hill ranch during the attacks, sure members of the Bin Laden family were in the US. But remember Osama was disowned by his family and stripped of his Saudi passport and Citizenship in 1994. While a handful of Osama's family did later become involved in Al-Qada, I find no evidence for those members being in the country on the day of september 11th.

So even if it was not the government as a whole who was behind those 'attacks' there were at least members of it behind it either letting it happen or making it happen.

Or simply didn't put the pieces together, or didn't expect an attack like the one on 9/11.
 

EMNofSeattle

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We also helped Sadam in Iraq ... this is why we should be be meddling in affairs that do not directly concern us.

The Iraq-Iran war most definitely directly concerned us. both sides threatened loudly to cut off oil lanes, Iran specifcally threatened to close Hormuz in violation of international law. that's why regular naval patrols began in the gulf and we supported Saddam.
 

KBCraig

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319876_456012447760844_161109786_n.jpg

picture compare with Madrid fire

Yes, because those two buildings are exactly comparable, right?

WTC 1: 110 floors above ground level
WTC 2: 110 floors AGL
Windsor: 29 floors AGL

WTC 1: impact and fire began at the 93th floor
WTC 2: impact and fire began at the 77th floor
Windsor: fire began at the 21st floor

WTC 1: 17 floors above damaged section
WTC 2: 33 floors above damaged section
Windsor: 8 floors above the fire

Yeah, other than the fact that the entire Windsor building's mass would just be a pimple on the nose of either WTC tower, they're directly comparable.

Carry on with that line of thought.
 

Tawnos

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Yes, because those two buildings are exactly comparable, right?

WTC 1: 110 floors above ground level
WTC 2: 110 floors AGL
Windsor: 29 floors AGL

WTC 1: impact and fire began at the 93th floor
WTC 2: impact and fire began at the 77th floor
Windsor: fire began at the 21st floor

WTC 1: 17 floors above damaged section
WTC 2: 33 floors above damaged section
Windsor: 8 floors above the fire

Yeah, other than the fact that the entire Windsor building's mass would just be a pimple on the nose of either WTC tower, they're directly comparable.

Carry on with that line of thought.

They're also entirely different types of construction, but facts have no place in conspiracy theorists' minds...
 

Ca Patriot

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America has the highest percentage of people in the world on mind altering drugs.

Thats a fact.
 

davidmcbeth

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The Iraq-Iran war most definitely directly concerned us. both sides threatened loudly to cut off oil lanes, Iran specifcally threatened to close Hormuz in violation of international law. that's why regular naval patrols began in the gulf and we supported Saddam.

Iran and Iraq in the 80's did concern us ... but why meddle in it? Look where it got us.

This is in europe .. europeans have navies ...

We liked saddam during the cold war .... so we provided him with alot of free crap ...

we should not be playing these games ... not in our best interest and not needed to begin with. just the gov't thinking they have to do something ...
 

Grapeshot

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The only people that we know died for sure were those who were in the Towers.
I don't know anyone who died the alleged plane crashes.
Another question comes up, why were the Israelies who where known to be involved released and their involvement covered up? (If you don't think this happens look at the USS Liberty event.)
--snip--

Approx 40 people died on flight 93 in PA, including Humboldt Bay National Wildlife Refuge manager Richard Guadagno.
http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_21514893/11-years-later-remembering-9-11-pa-flight
 
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