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Thread: No weapons on Wayne County Fairgrounds?

  1. #1
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    No weapons on Wayne County Fairgrounds?

    Wayne County fair is posted, and Sheriff Deputies (and the Wayne County Sheriff himself!) prevented my wife , daughter and I from entering the fairgrounds today. They said (while the recorder was off, darn it) that the fairgrounds were county property, but that THEY made the rules, not the state. I will do a write-up later... but could I get some advice? Should I post the audio and video here? What are my steps when they won't let me go about my lawful business?

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    Re: No weapons on Wayne County Fairgrounds?

    Number one....ORC preempts local laws......therefore their laws are in violation of ORC 9.68.

    City of Cleveland v state of Ohio upheld this preemption in 2010.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Maybe you should acquaint yourself with this thread:

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.p...26318#p4126318

    You must be a member (free) to see the open carry forum linked to above.

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    I understand that... but they physically would NOT allow me to enter... the fairgrounds... "there's too many kids" (in front of my dughter) "This is a family place." (i'm with my family)

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    but could I get some advice? Should I post the audio and video here? What are my steps when they won't let me go about my lawful business?
    If you have audio/video, then post it - but you've said the recorder was off...?

    If the fair runs for the week, contact the county prosecutor and ask if he is aware of the AG's memo about county fairs being public entities (iow political subdivisions) of the state.

    1) Check the forum I've linked to above, 2) interact with the fellows there, and others who may post, 3) decide how far you want to push things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    I understand that... but they physically would NOT allow me to enter... the fairgrounds... "there's too many kids" (in front of my dughter) "This is a family place." (i'm with my family)
    Are they willing to arrest you for attempting to do so? Are you willing to be arrested?

    After taking the steps described above, it may come down to that.

    I don't expect that the prosecutor is a dummy, but there may well be attempts to intimidate you into not exercising your rights - even from his offce.

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    Audio is too big... i need to find some software to compress it... didn't want to post the video on youtube... not looking for hits, just trying to enjoy the fair with my wife and kid!

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    I hope this works... should be audio and video from google drive...

    Audio:
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__...XVMU2lxdU11cEU

    Video:
    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__...FVSR0M0SENBY0k

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    You can't tell from the video what the Sheriff said. Where is that part in the audio file?

    What did he tell you would happen if you attempted to enter?

    Are you sure you've got your i's and t's dotted about who owns the property?

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    Main parts of the Property are listed as Owned by the wayne county board of commissioners. No direct threat was made, only 3 deputies and the sheriff standing between me and the entrance... not on the video, but one deputy placed his hand on his weapon when i tried to walk in... next time we go, the wife will be taping from well away. This is just the first truly negative encounter I've had, so the nervousness factor was there... the sheriff's words are at 7:50... "County Fair Board has ruled that no weapons..." etc

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    I think you should speak to the prosecutor's office, and also find out from the Sheriff's office what they will do if you attempt to enter.

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Go to the link, below.

    http://www.agri.ohio.gov/divs/fairs/...dule_Alpha.pdf

    It doesn't seem that Wayne County Fair (Wooster) Sept 8-13 is one of those Independent Fairs.

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    Okay, I'm calling the Sheriff's Office and the prosecutor tomorrow, but I will likely NOT try again to enter, as I don't want to be there without an outside witness... and i don't want to drive past the fair, home to get the wife, then back... I WOULD appreciate a phone convo with a more experienced member here, kind of go over a gameplan for next time I attempt to enter... and anyone from Wayne Co who want to go, that would be cool... my wife, I think, WILL be carrying next time as well... though I'm concerned with her carrying our 15mo old daughter if the cops get frisky... Part of me doesn't want to risk being a test case, but another part says I am a free American... or I'm not, and it gets proven to everyone else that we are NOT free...

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    http://www.waynecountyauditor.org/Re...teria3=Vanover

    64-02743.000 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WAYNE COUNTY FAIRGROUNDS 199 VANOVER ST

    The fair grounds are owned by the county commissioners.

    http://www.waynecountyauditor.org/Da...D=64-02743.000

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    Okay, I'm calling the Sheriff's Office and the prosecutor tomorrow, but I will likely NOT try again to enter, as I don't want to be there without an outside witness... and i don't want to drive past the fair, home to get the wife, then back... I WOULD appreciate a phone convo with a more experienced member here, kind of go over a gameplan for next time I attempt to enter... and anyone from Wayne Co who want to go, that would be cool... my wife, I think, WILL be carrying next time as well... though I'm concerned with her carrying our 15mo old daughter if the cops get frisky... Part of me doesn't want to risk being a test case, but another part says I am a free American... or I'm not, and it gets proven to everyone else that we are NOT free...
    BriKuz,

    It will not do any good to talk to the Sheriff's department about this issue. The fair board posted signs and the Sheriff is going to enforce those signs until the fair board, the prosecutor or a judge tells them not to.

    I recommend talking to the Wayne County prosecutor's office. There is a surprising amount of common sense present in their staff.

    Simple words like "legal" or "illegal" will go farther than statements like "I'm a free American" or "You're violating my 2nd amendment rights".

    Their signs claim authority under ORC 1711.31 but they are still in violation of ORC 9.68. That makes the signs "illegal".

    Since the fair only runs for a week, this issue will be dropped if no one pursues it. Someone needs to file a lawsuit and seek an immediate injunction to prevent enforcement of those illegal signs.

    That someone won't be me since I live 3 hours away.
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    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

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    MWSY, thank you for getting me back on track... I will contact the prosecutor tomorrow, and my wife and I will be travelling to the fair sometime this week... should there be an issue at the fair, my wife will record from afar, and I'll try to find the money to find an attorney. I would appreciate any Wayne County members more experienced than I to give me advice and or moral support.... but I fully intend to exercise my rights under ORC, USC, and the constitutions of my state and my nation.

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    Let us know what you find out.

    I still recommend calling the Sheriff and asking what they intend to do if you try to enter - and if they tell you they'll cite you, tell them they'd better talk to the prosecutor's office before they think about doing so, and ask that they get back to you once they do so.

    I have another avenue for you to pursue, if necessary.
    Last edited by BB62; 09-10-2012 at 01:15 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    BB62, if you want to drive up to the Wayne County fair this week, pick me up on your way!

    I'm down to one car right now or I would drive up Tueday. I have nothing better to do that day than be a test case.

    We have seen the type of people employed by the Wayne County Prosecutor's office and that should make us optimistic about resolving this issue without too much fuss.

    I like the idea of getting the Sheriff to contact the prosecutor's office since the prosecutor may not discuss this issue with a citizen. However, if the Sheriff is stubborn, this request may need to be made while attempting to enter the fair.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    If you guys are going, please let me know... I would either like to be with you or observing... I just need to know the night before so I can put my weapon in the car and make arrangements to park off my work's property that day... I'm curious what would happen if my wife had her pistol on one hip and our 15mo old daughter on her other and tried to enter... Though I am loath to encourage her getting into that situation.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    BB62, if you want to drive up to the Wayne County fair this week, pick me up on your way!

    I'm down to one car right now or I would drive up Tueday. I have nothing better to do that day than be a test case.

    We have seen the type of people employed by the Wayne County Prosecutor's office and that should make us optimistic about resolving this issue without too much fuss.

    I like the idea of getting the Sheriff to contact the prosecutor's office since the prosecutor may not discuss this issue with a citizen. However, if the Sheriff is stubborn, this request may need to be made while attempting to enter the fair.
    I like your idea, a lot, but my gas budget can't support that drive right now. :-(

    I agree - the prosecutor's office ought to (and I expect, will) straighten the Sheriff out.

    Keep us posted BriKuz.

  21. #21
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Received today:
    Dear Mr. "MWSY" –

    We have forwarded your email to the Wayne County Prosecutor, Dan Lutz, and he is reviewing this issue. Thank you for your concern.

    Barb Chapin
    Wayne County Commissioners’ Office
    330-287-xxxx
    My original email:
    To: waynecountyfair@yahoo.com; Wayne Commissioners
    Subject: Please remove the "No Guns" signs at the fairgrounds

    To whom it may concern-

    I prefer to openly carry my handgun in a hip holster. I noticed the signs at the Wayne county fairgrounds disallowing firearms, whether openly carried or concealed.

    I do not believe these signs are legal.

    The signs are posted by the Wayne County Fair Board and claim authority under ORC 1711.31, but that law only gives an agricultural society (i.e. the Fair Board) control and management of the property. ORC 1711.31 does not allow the Fair Board to violate a general law of the state of Ohio, such as the state preemption of firearm laws under ORC 9.68.

    In addition to allowing only federal and state laws to regulate firearms, ORC 9.68 also specifically directs a court to award costs and attorney fees in a lawsuit for any ordinance, rule or regulation that violates ORC 9.68.

    Since the posted signs violate ORC 9.68, I am sure you will want to act quickly to remove those signs.

    Thanks!

    -"MWSY"
    September 9, 2012
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  22. #22
    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz
    ...I'm curious what would happen if my wife had her pistol on one hip and our 15mo old daughter on her other and tried to enter... Though I am loath to encourage her getting into that situation.
    There is open carrying and there is open carrying to make a point.

    If you are going to open carry to make a point, like an illegally posted fairgrounds, you CAN NOT be afraid to get arrested. If you have ANY concern about being arrested, DO NOT DO IT.

    Law enforcement personnel are trained to maintain control and dominate the situation. Even if they KNOW their charge won't stick, arresting you will get you out of their way.

    The audio shows that the deputies at the fair are also not aware of ORC 2921.29. They need to be reminded of that one.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

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    Mr. Lutz (Wayne County Prosecutor) just called me and said he is working on the situation... hopefully we can get a good resolution!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWifeSaidYes View Post
    There is open carrying and there is open carrying to make a point.

    If you are going to open carry to make a point, like an illegally posted fairgrounds, you CAN NOT be afraid to get arrested. If you have ANY concern about being arrested, DO NOT DO IT.

    Law enforcement personnel are trained to maintain control and dominate the situation. Even if they KNOW their charge won't stick, arresting you will get you out of their way...
    +1000

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    Okay, okay... I forgot my balls at home... was concerned with getting arrested with my wife and daughter watching! I'll figure out today whether they are still there or not!

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