Some may criticize me for driving an Jeep CJ5 with no doors. I'm just ASKING for a roadside IED. But in reality, when that inevitable RPG gets fired at me, I stand a better chance of it going right through the vehicle without detonating.
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Additional magazines???
- Thread starter BigHPacking
- Start date
Some may criticize me for driving an Jeep CJ5 with no doors. I'm just ASKING for a roadside IED. But in reality, when that inevitable RPG gets fired at me, I stand a better chance of it going right through the vehicle without detonating.
DamonK
Regular Member
You are completely missing my point. So I'll restate it for you're benefit. Just as in a military conflict, in a civilian conflict you need to be prepared. You need to have a plan, training, and practice.
I hope that you have enough sense to not be saying that since a civilian gunfights take place at close range (sometimes) and in a short amount of time (sometimes) that you don't need to be prepared beyond tucking a pistol in your belt.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
One should also make sure there is TP on the roller before sitting down to...
And your ignoring his point that is still isn't the same as preparing for "warfare." The truth is, simply "tucking a pistol in your belt" is good for 99.96% of civilian self-defense. Yes, I made that up. But I challenge you to find a significant number of cases otherwise.
And people are still fine to carry extra mags (and armor, and a camelback, and a compass, and night-vision goggles), but there is a difference between doing that, and telling others that they have to do it, too, or they are somehow negligent.
Tactical9mm
Regular Member
For myself, I wouldn't find "tucking a pistol into my belt" would give me the survival skills (and mindset) that I feel are necessary to be comfortable (and successful) in a self-defense shoot situation.
I chose to be an asset to society as a carrier, versus an untrained liability that can't take ownership of every round that he/she fires. For the record, I'm not suggesting that training of any kind should be mandatory. I am suggesting that common sense would dictate that proficiency with your hardware would be mandatory.
For me, I find regular range workouts with my pistols, and specialized training that trained me for worst-case scenarios keeps me in the asset to society column, versus the liability column.
For example, if you are in a gunfight, and get shot in one arm. This is already now a very bad day for you, but then running into a weapon malfunction at that point would make the day even worse. Being able to clear ANY weapon malfunction with one, and ANY hand is a worst-case scenario for any shooter. Being able to rapidly respond to malfunctions while under stress I think is pretty essential. People who are not trained, and are unable to fix these types of problems quickly, are less likely to survive a must-shoot situation (in my opinion).
I'd also theorize that untrained shooters, who don't factor in things that are between your muzzle and your target, and things that are beyond your target have more potential for unintended collateral damage if a round misses. A ricochet that goes two blocks away, into a stroller being pushed across an intersection, as an example.
I am not going to be THAT guy.
Train for the worst, and you up your chances of survival in ANY shoot situation.
I wouldn't presume to suggest to anyone what they should, or should not do. As long as the rounds that people fire go where they are intended, we're all good.
I think our military friends are just saying to "prepare for the worst". We never know what situation we might be facing. It could be against multiple threats, in any number of variable environments.
Hopefully, we never have to even draw.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Is there a difference in the ballistic stats, between a gun tucked in a belt, and one in a holster with several magazines?
Wow, we are discussing carrying extra magazines. You make it seem as if that only comes with all sorts of other stuff. Can you parse your reply, please? I'm having trouble discerning which part is applicable to carrying extra magazines.
DamonK
Regular Member
The quote that you snipped didn't say anything about ballistics. The entire post that you snipped from is about being prepared for a firefight. Are you really trying to argue that it's ok to carry a loaded firearm and not be prepared to use it? Or are you just looking for a debate because you're bored? I'm going to hope for the latter.
I would argue that a handgun carried in a proper holster is likely to be used more proficiently than one stuffed into someone's pants.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
How is a person who carries in a belt or a belt slide not prepared? How is there a difference in the outcome? Save the drama, and the attack, it has nothing to do with boredom, or debate. I asked a relevant question, just answer it, or not. A holster has nothing to do with proficiency. If it does please show us a cite?
Tactical9mm
Regular Member
We were until the conversation shifted to body armor, and then to air support. I mean no offense here, and have the utmost respect for all of the strong individuals that use this board. With that said, my second post in the thread was more of a response to the overall tone going on in the thread. Preparedness for when bad things happen, and for when things go wrong. It was just my personal opinions, and no claims requiring cite were made by me.
My personal decision to carry two extra mags is a "just in case" thing. Malfunctions can and do happen, and having those two mags gives me that flexibility if something does go wrong. Additionally, the idea of ever running out of ammunition when it is needed is not something that I would like to face. Forty six rounds with my g19 or 52 rounds with my g34 is my personal "sweet spot".
Be safe.
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The tone (this is not directed at you) started to say: 'If you aren't carrying extra magazines, you are not prepared, perhaps even negligent.'
Well, prepared for WHAT, exactly? Then our daily business on the streets was likened to "warfare." Hence, the need for all this ammo and magazines. The "warfare" metaphor deserved the "body armor" reference.
I'm just making sure that people who carry a fully-loaded firearm, but no extra magazines, should NOT feel as if they are somehow unprepared for life on the streets of America.
Honestly, I'd like to read some reports about self-defense on the streets that required more than 3-4 shots. They must be out there, and I'd like to examine them.
Well, prepared for WHAT, exactly? Then our daily business on the streets was likened to "warfare." Hence, the need for all this ammo and magazines. The "warfare" metaphor deserved the "body armor" reference.
I'm just making sure that people who carry a fully-loaded firearm, but no extra magazines, should NOT feel as if they are somehow unprepared for life on the streets of America.
Honestly, I'd like to read some reports about self-defense on the streets that required more than 3-4 shots. They must be out there, and I'd like to examine them.
JamesB
Regular Member
Proper holster:
Attachments
AirborneVet
Regular Member
RE: Extra Mags
It is always better to have and NOT need than need and NOT have. Your choice of carry and where you live should help you use common sense and aid in determining your threat level and how many extra mags you wear. I carry a classic 1911 style, with single stack 7 rd. mag +1,(*230gr Winchester JHP) I use a Safariland lvl 1 hip molded holster. I just slide it between my pants and shirt. I have had my weapon jam on me at the range before and so I like to carry at least 1-2 extra mags in a single or double mag pouch on the weak side, I live in a relatively low-crime area, I can probably get away with 1 mag extra.
Depending on your residency, there may be a regulation as to how a sidearm or firearm is properly carried, (i.e. It must be in at least a lvl I retention holster, with the trigger covered, and worn that it be visible on 3 sides *for OC)
The town I live in (Fort Collins, CO) is a college town and there are more LEO's per capita than any other county in the state. Chances are they will be able to respond quickly and I won't be in a situation too long before the relief shows up.
It is always better to have and NOT need than need and NOT have. Your choice of carry and where you live should help you use common sense and aid in determining your threat level and how many extra mags you wear. I carry a classic 1911 style, with single stack 7 rd. mag +1,(*230gr Winchester JHP) I use a Safariland lvl 1 hip molded holster. I just slide it between my pants and shirt. I have had my weapon jam on me at the range before and so I like to carry at least 1-2 extra mags in a single or double mag pouch on the weak side, I live in a relatively low-crime area, I can probably get away with 1 mag extra.
Depending on your residency, there may be a regulation as to how a sidearm or firearm is properly carried, (i.e. It must be in at least a lvl I retention holster, with the trigger covered, and worn that it be visible on 3 sides *for OC)
The town I live in (Fort Collins, CO) is a college town and there are more LEO's per capita than any other county in the state. Chances are they will be able to respond quickly and I won't be in a situation too long before the relief shows up.
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F350
Regular Member
The wife and I were traveling and as we walked into a hotel to check in, the floor plate on the mag in my G19 failed and sent 9mms bouncing all over the lobby floor :uhoh:
The front desk guy just got a big grin on his face and said "Damn, I hate when that happens"!
We were in Indiana, a gun friendly state, I just said "That's one reason I always carry a couple spares"! He said "I don't always, but probably will now, never seen that before".
Mag failure is the main reason I carry a spare, my "rig" is a forward canted pancake style holster with a double mag pouch weak side, I like the way the 2 mags counter balance the gun, I carry a 5" Para-Ordnance P-14 (13 round mag 1 in the pipe) .45 and here on Colorado I mostly OC.
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DamonK
Regular Member
Oh man, that's awesome! Not in a good way, but pretty fun
Guys, all I'm trying to say is that if you're going to carry a weapon, you need to be prepared to use it. That means knowing how it functions. And knowing how to draw it. Everything past that is just reinforcement. Just like carrying extra mags, it's a good idea for the just in case. And Mac, if you really are a NRA instructor with your own school, you know that to be fact.
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mobiushky
Regular Member
Seems to me the more important question about whether or not to carry extra mags is why do you carry a gun? If you carry to defend just yourself, then an extra mag is probably not necessary in most cases. Like they say, most defense shootings take place in 3 feet, 3 shots, 3 seconds. I know that's a MASSIVE generalization, but the intent is to imply that defense shootings are close, fast, and violent and then over.
BUT, really, the key factor in any defense scenario is the attacker. He the attacker motivated or unmotivated? A motivated attacker will certainly take more than 2-3 shots to stop unless you can guarantee a head shot. An unmotivated attacker will probably bolt at the sight of the gun or at least the first shot without sticking around to see if you have any more rounds.
Since we can't all plan the time or place we are attacked, I like to have extra just in case. Plus, if chaos were to erupt say after an election I'd like to have some extra with me to be safe. LOL!
BUT, really, the key factor in any defense scenario is the attacker. He the attacker motivated or unmotivated? A motivated attacker will certainly take more than 2-3 shots to stop unless you can guarantee a head shot. An unmotivated attacker will probably bolt at the sight of the gun or at least the first shot without sticking around to see if you have any more rounds.
Since we can't all plan the time or place we are attacked, I like to have extra just in case. Plus, if chaos were to erupt say after an election
I'd like to have some extra with me to be safe. LOL!
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
What part of the magazine failed? Was it a broken floor plate? Or did the steel lips bend?
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Seems to me the more important question about whether or not to carry extra mags is why do you carry a gun? If you carry to defend just yourself, then an extra mag is probably not necessary in most cases. Like they say, most defense shootings take place in 3 feet, 3 shots, 3 seconds. I know that's a MASSIVE generalization, but the intent is to imply that defense shootings are close, fast, and violent and then over.
BUT, really, the key factor in any defense scenario is the attacker. He the attacker motivated or unmotivated? A motivated attacker will certainly take more than 2-3 shots to stop unless you can guarantee a head shot. An unmotivated attacker will probably bolt at the sight of the gun or at least the first shot without sticking around to see if you have any more rounds.
Since we can't all plan the time or place we are attacked, I like to have extra just in case. Plus, if chaos were to erupt say after an election
I agree with you, I carry usually one extra magazine with me, as a just in case. Not because I expect to get into a prolonged shootout, or even a shootout to begin with. I probably do it mostly out of habit, because of I used to be a LEO. If I can find another option to getting in a shootout, I will take it. If by some slim margin of fate that I do, I do not intend to stand toe to toe with a BG exchanging rounds. Unless fighting a gang, LOL, if I haven't dropped the bad guy in the first few rounds means I have a appointment with the undertaker. If I am in a position to reload, I am probably in a position to get away and live. I am not a police officer now, so I have no obligation to die or be a hero.
I have nothing against those who believe they need 50+ rounds to be prepared, but then I do find some humor in it. Sue me!
F350
Regular Member
It was the floor plate, it was warm so I had on an unbuttoned, untucked light weight shirt over a colored T-shirt. I felt something pull at the shirt and I reached down to find spring and follower in the shirt tail. As I walked rounds just rolled out the bottom of the mag (straight up and down holster) and were bouncing on the floor trailing out behind me.
No body else was in the lobby and the desk guy had his CCW so he found it to be a humorous object lesson, said after that he was going to start carrying a spare mag on a regular bases.
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
It was the floor plate, it was warm so I had on an unbuttoned, untucked light weight shirt over a colored T-shirt. I felt something pull at the shirt and I reached down to find spring and follower in the shirt tail. As I walked rounds just rolled out the bottom of the mag (straight up and down holster) and were bouncing on the floor trailing out behind me.
No body else was in the lobby and the desk guy had his CCW so he found it to be a humorous object lesson, said after that he was going to start carrying a spare mag on a regular bases.
Plastic floor plate? All my autos the plates are metal, was this a stock mag? If so did you send it back to Glock? I would be real mad if I had that happen to me.