.40 vs .45

.40 Vs .45

I like th .40 S&W....I just like the .45 better.

The differences between the commonly available non-magnum defensive pistol calibers is not significant enough to really make a big deal over.

Just my .02

Grim_Night said:

Just adding my $0.02 to the conversation...

My handgun is a Smith and Wesson M&P .40 with a 15+1 ammo capacity, fires smoothly with little recoil felt. The 165 grain winchester hollow points I have have about 1,140 feet per second at the muzzle and usually increase in size after mushrooming to 1.5x - 2x original caliber (.60-.80 for those doing the math)...

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Please show me a .40 s&w that consistently expands to an average (not just at the widest point) of ~.80 and still penetrate ~12" in media such as calibrated gel or flesh? Because I must be using really crappy .40 ammo...

twpetry said:

Please show me a .40 s&w that consistently expands to an average (not just at the widest point) of ~.80 and still penetrate ~12" in media such as calibrated gel or flesh? Because I must be using really crappy .40 ammo...

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Please show me where he said anything about penetrating 12" in ballistic gel, and I'll show you where I keep my valuables.

twpetry said:

Please show me a .40 s&w that consistently expands to an average (not just at the widest point) of ~.80 and still penetrate ~12" in media such as calibrated gel or flesh? Because I must be using really crappy .40 ammo...

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mwaterous said:

Please show me where he said anything about penetrating 12" in ballistic gel, and I'll show you where I keep my valuables.

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yeah... I never said anything about 12 inches... hell, if my bullets penetrate 8 inches I'm super happy considering 8 inches into the chest is more then likely lethal.

Grim_Night said:

yeah... I never said anything about 12 inches... ...

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That excuse never gets me out of trouble, either.

Oh Lord... whatever Mom can hit with reliably and under pressure is what she aught to look at buying. Take her to a range that rents guns and let her figure it out for herself. You can help her by showing her how something functions, but leave you personal opinions out of it. You know how many times I've heard "well my (insert male relative here) told me to get this or that"? Doesn't matter what your expected level is, you aren't her, period. Let her make up her own mind.

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I've shot .40 "Short & Weak" and my biggest complaint with it is muzzle flip. For whatever reason, it "feels" less controllable than the .45ACP. But, there are some who swear by it. If possible, arrange for you mother to shoot the different calibers and see what she feels comfortable with.

http://www.impactguns.com/smith-and...inch-stainless-steel-170231-022188702316.aspx

Just in case the elephants organize ....

SovereignAxe said:

Not sure where you're getting your data from, but I don't know of any 9mm rounds as low as 320 ft-lb. AFAIK most of them run between 350 and 420, and even more for +P rounds. Take the average of both calibers, 385 and 465, and you have about an 18% difference, on average-not counting +P 9mm rounds. I don't know if I'd consider that significant, but if an 18% improvement makes you feel better, more power to you. Personally, I think that 18% is significantly overshadowed by the loss of ability to get multiple rounds on target in a reasonable amount of time, not to mention the 10% loss in ammo capacity.

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Winchester PDX1 9mm 124gr +P, 1200 fps, 330 foot pounds...and this was the top performing 9mm cartridge in a recent test of common defense loads. It exceeded the average in penetration, velocity, and expansion. It even scored better than my beloved Speer Gold Dot 124gr which is why I chose it for my new Kel-Tec PF9...so I think the other gentleman was probably correct when he said average defense load 9mm is around 320. There might be some +P+ loads out there pushing 350-420 though, but really at that point you might as well just be shooting .357 SIG which in my opinion is more comfortable to shoot than .40 and on par with 9mm +P on felt recoil. It's more of a push than a snap IMO. Glock 27 with conversion barrel chyeah!!!
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/57960

Sundiver said:

Why would someone choosing a new pistol choose a .45 over a .40?

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For me it's, among other things, felt recoil and subsonic ammunition. I prefer the lower "bark" of .45 over the higher pitched report of rounds that near or exceed the speed of sound. Having to shoot .45 and .357 magnum at different times without hearing protection; I still wince at the thought of having to shoot a high velocity round in a self defense situation. I recovered near 'normal' hearing from .45 report relatively quick and felt disoriented due to sound shock for a significantly shorter period of time. YMMV, of course. My 1911 and revolver both shoot .45acp (the 1911 magazine is a great speed loader for the revolver too) now so everything is one caliber and I don't have to change gear on the belt, only holsters (or carry both). I'm guessing that would be harder to accomplish on a budget such as mine with a caliber like .40. When I used to reload, .45acp seemed like the easiest of the calibers that we loaded too.

That said, I'm going to agree with others here and suggest that she try some different calibers and platforms. I wouldn't limit it to just .45 or .40 either.

davidmcbeth said:

http://www.impactguns.com/smith-and...inch-stainless-steel-170231-022188702316.aspx

Just in case the elephants organize ....

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Darn you, davidmcbeth!! Now I want one!!

Seriously, I would love to see someone open carrying that thing. The police would probably have conniptions, even where open carry is legal.

Back on topic: Last time we went to the range, my lovely bride fired a variety of weapons, from .22 up to .45. She is a small woman, with small hands. FWIW, she felt the most comfortable with a .38 revolver. As others have noted here, recoil perception varies from person to person. OP's mother should try different calibers to see what she is comfortable with. In fact, if OP knows someone he can trust to both take Mom to the range and to keep his opinions to himself, that would be the ideal solution.

SFCRetired said:

Darn you, davidmcbeth!! Now I want one!!

Seriously, I would love to see someone open carrying that thing. The police would probably have conniptions, even where open carry is legal.

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I've actually OCed my Ruger. 44mag Redhawk with a 7.5 inch barrel in a crossdraw holster a few times. Got a few looks.

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Thought about dressing as a cowboy for halloween and OC'ing my new 7 1/2" Blackhawk when I accompany my girls trick-or-treating lol.

If people are so worried about muzzle flip then change the gun you are using.
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2445