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Use caution with glove-box carry on school grounds . . .

B0wman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Virginia
B0wman:

As I understand things, teachers are (typically) hired each year by individual contracts. Does your contract spell out any conditions of employment relating to possession of "illegal items", such as firearms, or does it just reference the Handbook?

IANAL, but you could be waiving your rights.

I don't have the contract on hand. I will have to dig it up to check. My suspicion is that I have agreed to abide by these "policies" when I signed the contract.:banghead:
 

gmuguy

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
23
Location
Nova
just wait "user" should chime in any minute now with some good info ;)
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
2a4all said:
Does your contract spell out any conditions of employment relating to possession of "illegal items", such as firearms, or does it just reference the Handbook?
And if it just says "illegal items", then arguably you're safe storing your pistol in your car.
Unfortunately, they're probably sneaky & underhanded enough to spell out some examples of what they think is illegal.
 

B0wman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Virginia
B0wman:

As I understand things, teachers are (typically) hired each year by individual contracts. Does your contract spell out any conditions of employment relating to possession of "illegal items", such as firearms, or does it just reference the Handbook?

IANAL, but you could be waiving your rights.

Found the contract.

This employment is subject to all laws and policies, rules and regulations of the School Board and the Superintendent now in existence or hereafter enacted during this employment.

This doesn't bode well.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Found the contract.

This employment is subject to all laws and policies, rules and regulations of the School Board and the Superintendent now in existence or hereafter enacted during this employment.

This doesn't bode well.
For the school board, you mean.

You can't enter into a contract which violates the law. If the provisions of 15.2-915. Control of Firearms; Applicability to Authorities and Local Governmental Agencies applies, then you may have some grounds to challenge the policy.

The School Board may be unaware of the provisions of 15.2-915. Check with your attorney. The School Board doubtless has an attorney (probably the city or county one), and if your attorney agrees that a conflict exists, s/he should contact their attorney on your behalf.

Successful plaintiffs may be awarded attorneys fees and costs.:D
 

vt800c

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
221
Location
Springfield,VA
wait...

..didn't it say "No one may possess or use any firearm or any weapon, as defined in Policy JFCD, without authorization of the Superintendent or his designee."?

I think if you explain it to them..they may authorize it. if not, it's grounds for a legal battle to enforce the VA law.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
..didn't it say "No one may possess or use any firearm or any weapon, as defined in Policy JFCD, without authorization of the Superintendent or his designee."?

I think if you explain it to them..they may authorize it. if not, it's grounds for a legal battle to enforce the VA law.
I'm just curious, is there empirical evidence or experience upon which you base such an optimistic supposition? In my experience, most "educated" educators are rabidly anti-gun.

TFred

PS: I also suspect that the administration will firmly believe their policy reflects and endorses state law. You will have a very hard time convincing them that their policy is illegal.
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
....

... then you may have some grounds to challenge the policy.

The School Board may be unaware of the provisions of 15.2-915. Check with your attorney. The School Board doubtless has an attorney (probably the city or county one), and if your attorney agrees that a conflict exists, s/he should contact their attorney on your behalf.

Successful plaintiffs may be awarded attorneys fees and costs.:D

Dear sweet fluffy puppies, NO!

If you hire an attorney to deal with the School Board, ensure that he does not reveal who his client is. If they find out it is one of their employees they may (as in most probably will) use that information as the basis for all sorts of actions that you could never "prove" were retaliatory. For example - for the first three years teachers are offered a yearly employment contract, after which they are on a "continuing contracrt" status (what the res of the world calls "tenure"). During the first three years they can decide not to offer another contract for any or no reason. After going to a continuing contract status teachers may be releassed (fired) for not only a written laundry list of offenses, but for the catch-alls of moral turpitude or bringing discredit to the school, the School Board, or the "profession" of teaching.

By all means challenge the policy as violative of state law, but do not let the School Board know you are the one doing it.

stay safe.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Dear sweet fluffy puppies, NO!

If you hire an attorney to deal with the School Board, ensure that he does not reveal who his client is. If they find out it is one of their employees they may (as in most probably will) use that information as the basis for all sorts of actions that you could never "prove" were retaliatory. For example - for the first three years teachers are offered a yearly employment contract, after which they are on a "continuing contracrt" status (what the res of the world calls "tenure"). During the first three years they can decide not to offer another contract for any or no reason. After going to a continuing contract status teachers may be releassed (fired) for not only a written laundry list of offenses, but for the catch-alls of moral turpitude or bringing discredit to the school, the School Board, or the "profession" of teaching.

By all means challenge the policy as violative of state law, but do not let the School Board know you are the one doing it.

stay safe.

This may be better fought by VCDL BOwman! Have you contacted them?
Good advice from both. But I didn't intend that your attorney should identify you when/if talking to your school board. Based on your postings, you seem to be aware of the sensitivity of the issue.

The Virginia Association of School Boards is free to publish their document because they're not subject to preemption, and they'd only claim it's a guideline anyway, and that local boards can implement it or not as as they see fit. However, I think you're right that it's in widespread usage.

You may be successful in getting the school board violation of 15.2-915 stricken, but one possible outcome of challenging this legislatively is that K-12 schools could be added to the list of places exempt from the "Parking Lot" provisions of 15.2-915.
 

VCDL President

Centurion
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
600
Location
Midlothian, Virginia, USA
I received BOwman's email on this.

VCDL has actually had this question come up several times over the last few months and have investigated. It is the opinion of our attorneys that school employees are actually considered state employees and not the employees of a locality, so he doesn't fall under 15.2-915. If we are correct in this, then that employment agreement is valid (ugh).

We are going to try to fix state employees next so they can store guns in their vehicles - that would fix BOwman's problem.

The VCDL Board finds it abhorrent that anyone is banned from storing firearms in their vehicle while at work and we will continue the fight to fix that.
 
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scouser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
.... It is the opinion of our attorneys that school employees are actually considered state employees and not the employees of a locality, so he doesn't fall under 15.2-915....

If school employees are employed by the State, then why do the school buses have "Local Government Use" and not "State Use" tags?
 

B0wman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Virginia
It is the opinion of our attorneys that school employees are actually considered state employees and not the employees of a locality, so he doesn't fall under 15.2-915.

Jackie-Chan-Meme.jpg

MFW I found out that I am actually a state employee despite the facts that my contract is with "XXXXXX County Public Schools" and my paychecks are signed by the same. :cuss:

Seriously though, massive thanks to the VCDL for replying so promptly and for all the awesome work they do.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
I received BOwman's email on this.

VCDL has actually had this question come up several times over the last few months and have investigated. It is the opinion of our attorneys that school employees are actually considered state employees and not the employees of a locality, so he doesn't fall under 15.2-915. If we are correct in this, then that employment agreement is valid (ugh).

We are going to try to fix state employees next so they can store guns in their vehicles - that would fix BOwman's problem.

The VCDL Board finds it abhorrent that anyone is banned from storing firearms in their vehicle while at work and we will continue the fight to fix that.
Is this because school boards are considered to be agents of the Department of Education, with the positions on the board filled either by local election or local appointment?
 

B0wman

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2012
Messages
27
Location
Virginia
Is this because school boards are considered to be agents of the Department of Education, with the positions on the board filled either by local election or local appointment?

It has to do with the funding. The VCDL President told me this in his email response:

The funding comes from the state for school salaries, so your employer is actually the state and not a locality.

Indeed, most of the funding for the school system does come from the state. The county does also contribute a significant portion. I wonder it that would help my cause.
 
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