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Thread: Can one OC/CCW @ the Air Races Friday ? (Reno)

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Can one OC/CCW @ the Air Races Friday ? (Reno)

    Like the subject reads. My son brought home two tickets for Friday's Air Races and we were wondering if we can carry there? Those of you who attended this function before any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,.
    Jim

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    A better question would be, "What would prohibit carrying at the Reno Air Races?"

    I'm not aware of anything legally prohibiting the carry, OC/CC of a firearm at an air race.
    Hoka hey

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    Quote Originally Posted by airrace.org
    Persons in possession of any of the following prohibited items are not permitted on the event site, whether they have proper credentials or tickets for admission, unless specifically authorized by the Reno Air Racing Association, the Airport Authority of Washoe County or a State, Local or Federal law enforcement or emergency services agency:

    •Explosives, fireworks, incendiary devices, firearms, or other weapons or dangerous items. Unless you are a law enforcement officer, your CCW or Concealed Firearm Permit does not grant you the right to carry a firearm at the Reno National Championship Air Races.
    ^

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Thank you-Just wanted to be sure.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Wait a minute. Either open carry is legal here, being on public property in the non-secure areas of the airport, or it is private property and solely a trespassing issue if refusing to leave (open or concealed carry).
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-12-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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    Re: Can one OC/CCW @ the Air Races Friday ? (Reno)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Wait a minute. Either open carry is legal here, being on public property in the non-secure areas of the airport, or it is private property and solely a trespassing issue if refusing to leave (open or concealed carry).
    Beat me to it. This.

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    ...which begs the question how the owner/manager can trespass a person with whom they have contracted for entrance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    ...which begs the question how the owner/manager can trespass a person with whom they have contracted for entrance.
    As Contracted by buying said ticket-correct? But the tickets were given to Jr, not bought by him/us.

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    The secure (admission) area of Stead is LEASED to RARA, who thus can set entry requirements. One of those requirements is no weapons.

    By using a ticket to enter, you are agreeing to abide by all of the rules set by RARA. The only exceptions to the no-weapons rule are for approved displays (military reenactors) and those who have hangars at Stead (who may not bring weapons out of those hangars).

    A word of warning: most parking areas are likewise RARA-controlled and subject to the same rules. The other parking areas are leased or owned by other private owners, who may set their own rules.

    The rule is VIGOROUSLY enforced, in part because of threats which have been made against members of the RARA staff.

    I don't agree with the policy (neither do many of the staff of RARA, especially Security volunteers) but I abide by it.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    If it is now leased property, and therefore they can have their own policies contrary to state law, then that means a concealed firearm is no longer a weapons violation, right? I'm not guessing what THEY think, but this is how I see it.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    ...The only exceptions to the no-weapons rule are for approved displays (military reenactors) and those who have hangars at Stead (who may not bring weapons out of those hangars)...
    And was that spelled out in the agreement when those hangars were bought/leased?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    And was that spelled out in the agreement when those hangars were bought/leased?
    Yes, actually. The lease specifies that all taxiways, runways and common areas of the field are under RARA's control for the days of the event. Those who want to be able to fly at whim have to temporarily move their planes to Reno Tahoe, Spanish Springs, Carson City, Minden, Fernley, etc -- otherwise, they are unable to get out or in except when the control tower is closed (overnight).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    By using a ticket to enter, you are agreeing to abide by all of the rules set by RARA.
    Oh, bull. The rules aren't even provided as a condition of entry to prospective ticket purchasers.

    The legislature reserves for itself the power to restrict the possession of firearms on public property.

    Compare this to the open carrier at the gun show in the public building in Vegas.

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    Re: Can one OC/CCW @ the Air Races Friday ? (Reno)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post

    Compare this to the open carrier at the gun show in the public building in Vegas.
    Yep, sounds similar. Its not actually a gun issue, its a event permitting authority issue. In other words, the private entity that applies for the permit has been given the impression that their event permit gives them this "private property style" control. The permitting agency has affirmed that. That means the actual beef is with the permitting agency, not the permittee.

    I still need to pursue the city attorney office in Vegas on that matter. Work keeps getting in the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yard Sale View Post
    Oh, bull. The rules aren't even provided as a condition of entry to prospective ticket purchasers.
    Legally, the buyer is responsible for finding out what the rules are (they're posted online and if you are buying at the gate, will be provided upon request). You are BUYING A TICKET, which means that you are already acknowledging their control of the area.

    As I said, RARA has LEASED the place. That makes it (temporary) PRIVATE PROPERTY. Even those of us who are staffing the races are not permitted to have weapons unless we are LEOs or our job there requires it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    You are BUYING A TICKET, which means that you are already acknowledging their control of the area.
    Not trying to split hairs here but the tickets were FREE

    But I guess if you enter w/said ticket, you still acknowledge said rules

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    ... That makes it (temporary) PRIVATE PROPERTY. ....
    So is it now only a trespassing issue if caught with a concealed firearm, which is normally not allowed in these areas when they are public property?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    I would think that they can ask you to leave, but no other legal trouble.
    Personally I would just ccw under the circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    So is it now only a trespassing issue if caught with a concealed firearm, which is normally not allowed in these areas when they are public property?
    I would think so.

    I would also think that I wouldn't want to be banned forever from the races.

    BTW, I don't think there's any ban on CCW or weapons in general at Stead EXCEPT during the races.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    Not trying to split hairs here but the tickets were FREE

    But I guess if you enter w/said ticket, you still acknowledge said rules
    Whatever you want to call it, since you are using a ticket to enter, you can't claim that you didn't think that they had control.

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    The question is: What becomes of NRS 244.364 and 268.418 when public property is used for quasi-private purposes?

    Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers.

    Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no city may infringe upon those rights and powers.

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    Re: Can one OC/CCW @ the Air Races Friday ? (Reno)

    Exactly, which is why I question whether any local municipality can grant someone the right to violate the preemption statues if they can't violate it themselves.

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    My take on this is that they event organizer (lessee) may set rules as they see fit that do not violate state law. When public property is leased, it's still publicly owned. They cannot violate preemption. On the other hand, this will not get fixed unless and until someone is arrested, charged, convicted and the conviction is successfully overturned on appeal, establishing specific case law.

    It's unfortunate, but it appears that most public and private entities have adopted the "catch me if you can" mentality where by they do what they want, regardless of statutes based on the presupposition that The People they're effecting don't have the will or the means to fight out a lengthy and expensive court battle. A serious and very dangerous side effect is that by manipulating the system this way, they've ultimately rendered the legislative branch of government ineffective and have burdened the judicial branch with the task of legislating from the bench each and every circumstance that arises.
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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Ok even w/the General admission, you don't have to sit in the stands. You can sit down in front but bring a chair/small umbrella/hat-we didn't and we look like a rock lobster

    On the topic of CCW/Carry. We did not have a backpack (although they checked them) and walked to the ticket person and said hello, how are you, and walked in. IF one wanted to CCW, and do it right, no one would know-no pat down when we went.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    My take on this is that they event organizer (lessee) may set rules as they see fit that do not violate state law. When public property is leased, it's still publicly owned. They cannot violate preemption. On the other hand, this will not get fixed unless and until someone is arrested, charged, convicted and the conviction is successfully overturned on appeal, establishing specific case law. ...
    This is my worry.

    Because they will TELL you that you can't open carry, and all the cops and sheeple with agree with them until you take it to an actual court.

    But you may be committing an actual crime if you conceal it, and now you will have no defense if caught.

    They win.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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