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Few OC Questions Concerning ID and Vehicles...

Shallnotbeinfringed

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
I've been reading several forums, the state code, and what-not. But the information is quite saturated and I keep finding different views or opinions on the some areas of the law. Therefore, I'm left with the following questions:

  1. If open carrying a holstered firearm (not in a vehicle) and stopped by police, are you required by law to identify yourself when asked?
    (Assuming the firearm is the only reason they're questioning you)
  2. Additionally, if the police are responding to a call after someone reported you for having a holstered firearm, are you required by law to identify yourself when asked?
    (Assuming the 911 complaint stated only that you had a holstered firearm and not that you were acting recklessly with it)
  3. Is open carrying in a vehicle legal?
    • If open carrying in a vehicle, what constitutes the difference between "open" and "concealed"?
    • If open carrying in a vehicle, is the weapon allowed to be holstered or must it be, for example, in the passengers seat where it's more-easily visible?
    • If open carrying in a vehicle, must one unload the firearm or is it legal to remain loaded?
      • If open carrying in a vehicle and if the firearm must be unloaded, are there any other laws governing how or where the ammo must be? (locked in a box or bag, out of view, or out of reach)?

Also, some of these questions may seems silly, but no; I'm not asking so that I can walk around like some arrogant activist looking for trouble and to sue a police officer like the many who've posted videos on YouTube. I'm simply asking so that I know the law, can avoid trouble, but yet protect myself and those around me.

All questions assume the holder does not have their CCW license.

I can only help with the definition of what concealed is. I haven't been able to find anything relating to when you are compelled to identify yourself (that just means I haven't found it, not that it doesn't exist).

See (10) for the definition of concealed, but since that section references "deadly weapons" I've included the entire section.

§61-7-2. Definitions.
As used in this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Blackjack" means a short bludgeon consisting, at the striking end, of an encased piece of lead or some other heavy substance and, at the handle end, a strap or springy shaft which increases the force of impact when a person or object is struck. The term "blackjack" shall include, but not be limited to, a billy, billy club, sand club, sandbag or slapjack.

(2) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade released from the handle by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and when so released is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever or other locking or catching device.

(3) "Knife" means an instrument, intended to be used or readily adaptable to be used as a weapon, consisting of a sharp-edged or sharp-pointed blade, usually made of steel, attached to a handle which is capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing or tearing wounds. The term "knife" shall include, but not be limited to, any dagger, dirk, poniard or stiletto, with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, any switchblade knife or gravity knife and any other instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing or tearing wounds. A pocket knife with a blade three and one-half inches or less in length, a hunting or fishing knife carried for hunting, fishing, sports or other recreational uses, or a knife designed for use as a tool or household implement shall not be included within the term "knife" as defined herein unless such knife is knowingly used or intended to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death.

(4) "Switchblade knife" means any knife having a spring-operated blade which opens automatically upon pressure being applied to a button, catch or other releasing device in its handle.

(5) "Nunchuka" means a flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts, connected by a chain, cable, rope or other nonrigid, flexible or springy material, constructed in such a manner as to allow the rigid parts to swing freely so that one rigid part may be used as a handle and the other rigid part may be used as the striking end.

(6) "Metallic or false knuckles" means a set of finger rings attached to a transverse piece to be worn over the front of the hand for use as a weapon and constructed in such a manner that, when striking another person with the fist or closed hand, considerable physical damage may be inflicted upon the person struck. The terms "metallic or false knuckles" shall include any such instrument without reference to the metal or other substance or substances from which the metallic or false knuckles are made.

(7) "Pistol" means a short firearm having a chamber which is integral with the barrel, designed to be aimed and fired by the use of a single hand.

(8) "Revolver" means a short firearm having a cylinder of several chambers that are brought successively into line with the barrel to be discharged, designed to be aimed and fired by the use of a single hand.

(9) "Deadly weapon" means an instrument which is designed to be used to produce serious bodily injury or death or is readily adaptable to such use. The term "deadly weapon" shall include, but not be limited to, the instruments defined in subdivisions (1) through (8), inclusive, of this section or other deadly weapons of like kind or character which may be easily concealed on or about the person. For the purposes of section one-a, article five, chapter eighteen-a of this code and section eleven-a, article seven of this chapter, in addition to the definition of "knife" set forth in subdivision (3) of this section, the term "deadly weapon" also includes any instrument included within the definition of "knife" with a blade of three and one-half inches or less in length. Additionally, for the purposes of section one-a, article five, chapter eighteen-a of this code and section eleven-a, article seven of this chapter, the term "deadly weapon" includes explosive, chemical, biological and radiological materials. Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, the term "deadly weapon" does not include any item or material owned by the school or county board, intended for curricular use, and used by the student at the time of the alleged offense solely for curricular purposes.

(10) "Concealed" means hidden from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition. A deadly weapon is concealed when it is carried on or about the person in such a manner that another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried.

(11) "Firearm" means any weapon which will expel a projectile by action of an explosion.

(12) "Controlled substance" has the same meaning as is ascribed to that term in subsection (d), section one hundred one, article one, chapter sixty-a of this code.

(13) "Drug" has the same meaning as is ascribed to that term in subsection (1), section one hundred one, article one, chapter sixty-a of this code.
 

Devon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
11
Location
WV
Shallnotbeinfringed,

Thanks for that! I was actually looking at that part of West Virginia's code the other day, but I was skimming through and completely overlooked the part about concealment. That clarifies things a bit, but still leaves one to question rather keeping the firearm holstered when in a vehicles would consider it to be concealed or not - it also depends on which side of the vehicle the officer approaches you on, I suppose.

Thanks again!
 

Shallnotbeinfringed

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA
Shallnotbeinfringed,

Thanks for that! I was actually looking at that part of West Virginia's code the other day, but I was skimming through and completely overlooked the part about concealment. That clarifies things a bit, but still leaves one to question rather keeping the firearm holstered when in a vehicles would consider it to be concealed or not - it also depends on which side of the vehicle the officer approaches you on, I suppose.

Thanks again!

I would say that if you are sitting in your car, and your handgun is on your hip at 3:00 (for the sake of discussion), you would not be hiding it "from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition". You are open carrying in a car.

However, it could be said that if the handgun (in a holster) in the glove box, center console, under the seat, in a door pocket/pouch could be considered concealed because "another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried". Then you can get into the whole definition of "carried", but I won't.

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so please do not take this for anything more than conversation and discussion.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I would say that if you are sitting in your car, and your handgun is on your hip at 3:00 (for the sake of discussion), you would not be hiding it "from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition". You are open carrying in a car.

However, it could be said that if the handgun (in a holster) in the glove box, center console, under the seat, in a door pocket/pouch could be considered concealed because "another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried". Then you can get into the whole definition of "carried", but I won't.

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so please do not take this for anything more than conversation and discussion.

I agree with this. However, though it is not crystal clear, OC in a vehicle appears to be unlawful. Be careful.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Open carry of loaded holstered handguns at age 18 without a permit or ID is legal in West Virginia, in vehicles as well.

Regardless if whether your state has a statute to require you to state your name to police when seized by police under certain circumstances, it's probably advantageous to you to state your name to help identify the suvbsequent police records about your seizure when you submit freedom if information act requests for ecods, discovery during law suits, etc.

To hedge against a false charge of unlawful concealed carrying, especially in places like vehicles, consider obtaining a concealed handgun permit.
 
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