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Thread: My False Arrest

  1. #1
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    My False Arrest

    I'd like to share with your my encounter with the police in May. This is the first time I have shared all the details. I have left nothing out. This occurred in the City of Charlotte:

    At about 4:15 PM on Friday May 25th, 2012 I left my apartment located at [redacted] decided to go for a walk. The weather was in the high 80’s and sunny. I had spent the day thus far inside and was looking for an excuse to get outside. I had not verified for myself whether or not the right to bear arms was respected in my local and as an advocate that citizens and those around them are safer when armed (substantial evidence supports this point of view), I saw this as good opportunity to do just that. Without owning a handgun, I am relegated to my rifle, and so I slung my Marlin 60 across my back and headed outside. The scabbard that I was using to carry my rifle covers the firearm up to and a little past the wrist of the stock.

    Living near a university, care must be taken to avoid campus property, as it is a violation of state law to go onto educational property with a firearm. Aware of this I made sure that my route always had me on a side of the road opposite campus property. I walked down [redacted] Drive, took a left on [redacted] Rd, and a left again on [redacted]. Several police units passed me by in that time without so much as slowing down, including a State Trooper. I did not stop to talk to anyone along the way.

    Just as I completed the second mile of my walk, a few minutes after 5PM, I was approaching the shopping center where the Food Lion is located. At this time, I heard from about my 7 o’clock position, someone call out to me. I turned and saw a motorcycle officer and asked him “Is there a problem officer?” Several other units were also arriving. Ignoring my question, he told me to put my hands up. He was still several paces away at the curb. I asked again, “Is there is a problem officer?” Again ignoring me, he rushed forward, grabbed my arm, and pulled it behind my back. Shocked and startled, I turned my torso, my feet staying more or less in place to face the officer and asked in an alarmed tone “What are you doing!” several times.

    Without being told that I was under arrest, I was relieved of my rifle, and my pockets were searched, illegally. I told the officers “I do not consent to any searches”. At one point in time an officer must have told me that I was not arrested because I distinctly recall saying, “Sir, I am seized, I have been arrested!” If in fact CMPD holds that I was not arrested at that time, and I was simply detained, the search of my pockets is highly illegal, as Terry v Ohio tells us only a pat down is allowed in those circumstances.

    It is difficult to remember the exact verbiage, but I told the officers while they were searching me that it is my right, protected under the constitution to bear arms and that what they were doing to me was highly illegal. Realizing that the officers would not heed my warning, I cursed at them. As they were searching me, the officers claimed that I smelled of marijuana. The claim is ridiculous. I do not smoke marijuana, I was freshly showered and my clothes were recently laundered. Their search, including within my shoes, yielded no marijuana or paraphernalia. If in fact the officers did smell weed, it would have been from a passing car or some other source. I believe there was in also a floral bed on the corner where we were standing. Perhaps this is what they smelled.

    When asked “What is your plan with this rifle?” I took this as a slight, insinuating that my intention was to kill people. I told the officer “there is no plan” I was merely exercising my right to bear.

    I had attempted to retrieve my phone to audio record the encounter, but it was pulled from my hand and confiscated. My rifle, wallet, keys, and phone were taken and shortly thereafter I was placed in the back of the squad car. I asked for a sergeant or superior officer to appear, but one of arresting officers scrunched their face at me and shook their head no.

    I baked there for about an hour. I saw my rifle being moved from car to car, usually handled and in an unsafe manner (I could see that the retention clip of the scabbard was not secured about my rifle and the scabbard was held almost upside down at several points, putting my rifle at severe risk of being spilled on the road).

    Before being placed in the car, it should be noted that the entire time I was facing the same direction and never moved from where I was standing. I was charged with Going Armed To The Terror of the People and Resisting Arrest.

    Many months later, we reached an agreement with the DA. The gun would be destroyed and the charges dropped. I took the deal. I feel robbed. The video of the incident was never produced.
    Last edited by tCan; 09-14-2012 at 04:28 AM.

  2. #2
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    My False Arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by tCan View Post
    I'd like to share with your my encounter with the police in May. This is the first time I have shared all the details. I have left nothing out. This occurred in the City of Charlotte:

    At about 4:15 PM on Friday May 25th, 2012 I left my apartment located at [redacted] decided to go for a walk. The weather was in the high 80’s and sunny. I had spent the day thus far inside and was looking for an excuse to get outside. I had not verified for myself whether or not the right to bear arms was respected in my local and as an advocate that citizens and those around them are safer when armed (substantial evidence supports this point of view), I saw this as good opportunity to do just that. Without owning a handgun, I am relegated to my rifle, and so I slung my Marlin 60 across my back and headed outside. The scabbard that I was using to carry my rifle covers the firearm up to and a little past the wrist of the stock.

    Living near a university, care must be taken to avoid campus property, as it is a violation of state law to go onto educational property with a firearm. Aware of this I made sure that my route always had me on a side of the road opposite campus property. I walked down [redacted] Drive, took a left on [redacted] Rd, and a left again on [redacted]. Several police units passed me by in that time without so much as slowing down, including a State Trooper. I did not stop to talk to anyone along the way.

    Just as I completed the second mile of my walk, a few minutes after 5PM, I was approaching the shopping center where the Food Lion is located. At this time, I heard from about my 7 o’clock position, someone call out to me. I turned and saw a motorcycle officer and asked him “Is there a problem officer?” Several other units were also arriving. Ignoring my question, he told me to put my hands up. He was still several paces away at the curb. I asked again, “Is there is a problem officer?” Again ignoring me, he rushed forward, grabbed my arm, and pulled it behind my back. Shocked and startled, I turned my torso, my feet staying more or less in place to face the officer and asked in an alarmed tone “What are you doing!” several times.

    Without being told that I was under arrest, I was relieved of my rifle, and my pockets were searched, illegally. I told the officers “I do not consent to any searches”. At one point in time an officer must have told me that I was not arrested because I distinctly recall saying, “Sir, I am seized, I have been arrested!” If in fact CMPD holds that I was not arrested at that time, and I was simply detained, the search of my pockets is highly illegal, as Terry v Ohio tells us only a pat down is allowed in those circumstances.

    It is difficult to remember the exact verbiage, but I told the officers while they were searching me that it is my right, protected under the constitution to bear arms and that what they were doing to me was highly illegal. Realizing that the officers would not heed my warning, I cursed at them. As they were searching me, the officers claimed that I smelled of marijuana. The claim is ridiculous. I do not smoke marijuana, I was freshly showered and my clothes were recently laundered. Their search, including within my shoes, yielded no marijuana or paraphernalia. If in fact the officers did smell weed, it would have been from a passing car or some other source. I believe there was in also a floral bed on the corner where we were standing. Perhaps this is what they smelled.

    When asked “What is your plan with this rifle?” I took this as a slight, insinuating that my intention was to kill people. I told the officer “there is no plan” I was merely exercising my right to bear.

    I had attempted to retrieve my phone to audio record the encounter, but it was pulled from my hand and confiscated. My rifle, wallet, keys, and phone were taken and shortly thereafter I was placed in the back of the squad car. I asked for a sergeant or superior officer to appear, but one of arresting officers scrunched their face at me and shook their head no.

    I baked there for about an hour. I saw my rifle being moved from car to car, usually handled and in an unsafe manner (I could see that the retention clip of the scabbard was not secured about my rifle and the scabbard was held almost upside down at several points, putting my rifle at severe risk of being spilled on the road).

    Before being placed in the car, it should be noted that the entire time I was facing the same direction and never moved from where I was standing. I was charged with Going Armed To The Terror of the People and Resisting Arrest.

    Many months later, we reached an agreement with the DA. The gun would be destroyed and the charges dropped. I took the deal. I feel robbed. The video of the incident was never produced.
    You paid the extortion, that is your choice. You always have the option to continue doing such, but have the recorder going at all times. I do assume such carry is not otherwise prohibited by law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    From your description, I have a pretty good idea near where you live (lived near there until 2006). Did you ever contact an attorney on this matter? Ever consider purchasing another rifle and repeating your journey, this time with a running recorder and perhaps a 3rd party witness watching from a distance?
    Last edited by carolina guy; 09-14-2012 at 11:09 AM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    From your description, I have a pretty good idea near where you live (lived near there until 2006). Did you ever contact an attorney on this matter? Ever consider purchasing another rifle and repeating your journey, this time with a running recorder and perhaps a 3rd party witness watching from a distance?
    I have council. I want to repeat my journey, but my college education would go away if I did that.... powers beyond my control...

    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    You paid the extortion, that is your choice. You always have the option to continue doing such, but have the recorder going at all times. I do assume such carry is not otherwise prohibited by law.
    You assume I had a camera with me. I did not. The price of a marlin 60 is small potatoes compared what it's cost me to hire a lawyer. This is the easy way to end it all at this point.
    Last edited by tCan; 09-14-2012 at 11:48 AM.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    You have to make your own choices. Only you know you, but certainly CMPD should have known much better and in that area, they have much bigger fish to fry.

    Sounds like your attorney could have done better given the GATTOP charge is bogus unless you were walking in the street and trying to intimidate people (like holding the rifle instead of it slung over the shoulder).

    Of course, it is "easy" for us to say you should have fought the charges.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    I smell a fishy troll.... Bad movie script perhaps. Nothing sounds right here. Maybe its just me.

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    you did a bad thing. Now someone else will have there rights steped on by these so called LEO because they had their way with you.

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    I get a sense of Bovine Scatology.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFED12 View Post
    I get a sense of Bovine Scatology.........
    Me, too.

    and this from "Getting a feel for the area" http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...90#post1824890

    Quote Originally Posted by tCan View Post
    If its posted no concealed weapons, you cant (legally) go in concealed. Open is ok, but you may be asked to leave. Do not carry in a place that serves alcohol. It is illegal to go into a bank concealed carrying. Open carry is legal in that instance. Felony to go onto educational property with a firearm. Misdemeanor with a BB gun. We also have a GATTTOTP common law:

    This does not ban open carry. If you made a threat and the police found you with a weapon, you would be guilty of this crime. It is frequently abused law by Law enforcement officers. I would know, I'm pushing $5000 on my legal defense so far... pigs.

    Full text of laws:
    http://www.ncsheriffs.org/images/200...Laws%20Pub.pdf
    1. Calling LEO's "pigs" = bad idea
    2. Succumbing to GAttTotP without good legal representation = bad idea
    3. Posting incorrect/outdated legal cites for NC laws = bad idea.

    IMHO, put down the gun, step away from the keyboard, study up on NC laws/statutes/requirements, and think a bit more before you hit "submit reply", THEN go OC again.

    4 posts total, 2 of those insulting, derogatory, and incorrect are seriously affecting your credibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    Me, too.

    and this from "Getting a feel for the area" http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...90#post1824890



    1. Calling LEO's "pigs" = bad idea
    2. Succumbing to GAttTotP without good legal representation = bad idea
    3. Posting incorrect/outdated legal cites for NC laws = bad idea.

    IMHO, put down the gun, step away from the keyboard, study up on NC laws/statutes/requirements, and think a bit more before you hit "submit reply", THEN go OC again.

    4 posts total, 2 of those insulting, derogatory, and incorrect are seriously affecting your credibility.
    1. I called police who broke the law pigs. I see nothing wrong in that.
    2. We chose my lawyer based on recommendations.
    3. I am not a lawer. It is not my duty to supply the members of this forum with up to the minute accurate information on whatever law we may be happening to be discussing. The poster asked for a general synapses of gun laws in NC. I obliged. All the statutes in that article are referenced and can be researched if the OP should desire. Given the recent trend of relaxing gun laws, I think worst case scenario she'd be erring on the side of caution assuming something had changed.

    You all may believe this did not happen, or that I did in fact break some law. If the former, there's nothing I can do that can convince you otherwise. If the latter, you'd think I'd have been charged with those violations instead of these vague, stack-on charges...

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    Hmm, first post is a long extreamly detailed story, name calling, and a feel of a lack of firearm knowlage. You are pinging my bs radar. From time to time we have people come here to troll or try to rouse us in to talking poorly of LEO's so they can site us elsewhere for their benefit. First and foremost this site is here to advocate the open carry of HANDGUN's, not rifles.

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    Re: My False Arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by tCan View Post
    1. I called police who broke the law pigs. I see nothing wrong in that.
    2. We chose my lawyer based on recommendations.
    3. I am not a lawer. It is not my duty to supply the members of this forum with up to the minute accurate information on whatever law we may be happening to be discussing. The poster asked for a general synapses of gun laws in NC. I obliged. All the statutes in that article are referenced and can be researched if the OP should desire. Given the recent trend of relaxing gun laws, I think worst case scenario she'd be erring on the side of caution assuming something had changed.

    You all may believe this did not happen, or that I did in fact break some law. If the former, there's nothing I can do that can convince you otherwise. If the latter, you'd think I'd have been charged with those violations instead of these vague, stack-on charges...
    If you want is to believe you, simply post a few of the legal documents you surely have.

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    I guess he is telling the truth. LINK REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR TO PROTECT OP PRIVACY

    Now to do a FOIA request unless Michael wants to post a copy of the incident report for us.

    Have you been watching MarkedGuardian on youtube by chance?

    If you are going to test the Mecklenburg Co. waters on something like this you really need to be ready to document the impending encounter. If you can prove the weapon was shouldered, you were compliant and never threatened anyone the settlement would easily cover your legal expenses (the video would cover your legal expenses if the event went down as you described). Several good 2A lawyers in the Charlotte area. You still have recourse with a civil suit depending on what evidence can be obtained. May want to join Grass Roots NC and speak to them about the matter.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 09-19-2012 at 04:42 PM.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    Really???

    NC_HEEL…I am sure the OP from NC thoroughly appreciated having his credibility challenged by folk from far (TN< SC< KC< IL) and near and truly I bet he is just tickled to death to have you search out and then post his arrest findings, along w/his name and foto on this open forum.

    And why on earth would he want to post the results of an FOIA out here where out of the responders , one told him he paid the extortion, one challenges the attorney’s advice, one chastising you did a bad thing, FIVE saying the initial post is BS…all within the span of 13 posts in which the OP has posted three of the posts…math not being my strong suit…80% challenged the OP’s integrity and now you want him to post something else…

    truly unbelievable!!

    wabbit

    PS: final insult was recommending joining GRNC...nice touch!!
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 09-19-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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    Re: My False Arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    NC_HEEL…I am sure the OP from NC thoroughly appreciated having his credibility challenged by folk from far (TN< SC< KC< IL) and near
    Evidently, your reading comprehension isn't up to snuff either. Where did I question the OP's credibility? I simply told him how to remove doubts, I neither believed nor doubted his story.

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    Actually, from an economic standpoint, the OP made the correct choice. $40K for defense for a $100 gun, a no brainer.

    In actuality, if the DA was willing to settle for just the gun, then the DA knew he had no case.

    Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

    OK killer, give the knife and we'll let you go...

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    Whoa, don't attack me. You don't want to go there. I am behind the guy if he did nothing wrong. He gave out so much information in his original post he might as well of linked to the arrest report himself. Why else give out the time and date? Took me 2 minutes to locate the arrest report. I expected it not to be there and I was going to call him out on it.

    Lots of activists are now open carrying rifles in their pursuit of protection of the 2A. The second Amendment was originally written for long guns as pistols were only used for dueling at the time it was penned. I think whoever said this site is for pistols only is wrong. Open carry is any weapon.

    The OPs only fault was trying to make a statement like this without the intestinal fortitude to fight it out. Taking the plea was a lawyer who had no interest in standing for the Constitution and was looking for the easy way out. Did anyone take a look at the youtube channel I referenced? I don't agree with the way he does his open carry events but he has made it easy for anyone to open carry in the towns and cities he frequents without being harassed by the police.

    Lastly ncwabbit, how is pointing him towards GRNC insulting? Is this not what they stand for? Protection of our 2A rights with no compromising. Should I give all my money to the NRA (National Rifle Association) if GRNC doesn't think open carrying a rifle is a good idea? Right now GRNC gets $3 to every $1 I give the NRA. I don't know how many of those raffle tickets I have bought to support the PVF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Actually, from an economic standpoint, the OP made the correct choice. $40K for defense for a $100 gun, a no brainer.

    In actuality, if the DA was willing to settle for just the gun, then the DA knew he had no case.

    Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

    OK killer, give the knife and we'll let you go...
    From an economic standpoint open carrying a rifle makes little sense. What makes sense is wanting to defend your Constitutional Rights and fighting an illegal search and seizure along with false imprisonment. Those last two usually get you about $60k when the City/County attorney settle out of court. With his plea deal there is another GATTTOTP precedent out there and police think it is a viable charge. Since it was sheathed just making people nervous is enough to charge someone according to this plea deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    Lots of activists are now open carrying rifles in their pursuit of protection of the 2A. The second Amendment was originally written for long guns as pistols were only used for dueling at the time it was penned. I think whoever said this site is for pistols only is wrong. Open carry is any weapon.

    Just for clarification;

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfries View Post
    Just for clarification;

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
    WOW!!! I never saw that. Suggestion to John and Mike, if you are going to make a rule then have an exemption due to one states laws at least get the states laws correct. Open carry is NOT banned in California. Carrying a loaded weapon is. People carry pistols openly every day in California.

    They do not promote the carry of long guns. So carrying a pistol in accordance with our Second Amendment right is fine but a rifle is taking it a little too far?

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    Re: My False Arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by NC-Heel View Post
    WOW!!! I never saw that. Suggestion to John and Mike, if you are going to make a rule then have an exemption due to one states laws at least get the states laws correct. Open carry is NOT banned in California. Carrying a loaded weapon is. People carry pistols openly every day in California.

    They do not promote the carry of long guns. So carrying a pistol in accordance with our Second Amendment right is fine but a rifle is taking it a little too far?
    I would recommend that you check on the status of UOC in CA before you call Mike and John out. You will save yourself some embarrassment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    I would recommend that you check on the status of UOC in CA before you call Mike and John out. You will save yourself some embarrassment.


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    My bad, I did not know they changed that the first of the year. I do not keep up with certain states laws as I refuse to voluntarily visit any state that does not share reciprocity with North Carolina and the state of Arizona.

    I recommend everyone in California carry a unloaded rifle around.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    If you want is to believe you, simply post a few of the legal documents you surely have.

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    my reading comprehension? REALLY??


    Quote: NC-Heel: Whoa, don't attack me. You don't want to go there. unquote.

    And pray tell why not mate...tis bad when you mouth off and spew material off the cuff and even the out of staters slap you down for spouting incorrect information...

    quote: NC-Heel: I am behind the guy if he did nothing wrong. unquote. oh wait...maybe you should think about changing your name to something like say...THOMAS!!

    wabbit

    PS: thanks to our friend from TN for pointing that rule tidbit out...us un-ed-u-ma-cated folk down here in the south have bad reading comprehension as pointed out by the lad in KY
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 09-20-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tCan View Post
    1. I called police who broke the law pigs. I see nothing wrong in that.
    2. We chose my lawyer based on recommendations.
    3. I am not a lawer. It is not my duty to supply the members of this forum with up to the minute accurate information on whatever law we may be happening to be discussing. The poster asked for a general synapses of gun laws in NC. I obliged. All the statutes in that article are referenced and can be researched if the OP should desire. Given the recent trend of relaxing gun laws, I think worst case scenario she'd be erring on the side of caution assuming something had changed.

    You all may believe this did not happen, or that I did in fact break some law. If the former, there's nothing I can do that can convince you otherwise. If the latter, you'd think I'd have been charged with those violations instead of these vague, stack-on charges...
    If you don't mind my asking...what was their reasoning for the GATTOP and resisting charges?

    Were you carrying the rifle slung "properly"?

    Ultimately, you had to go with what you were comfortable with based on the advice you were given. Next time (if there is)...take a recorder.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    I will ask again.

    Lastly ncwabbit, how is pointing him towards GRNC insulting? Is this not what they stand for? Protection of our 2A rights with no compromising.

    and who is Thomas.

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