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Thread: Landlords restricting firearms and weapons in apartments.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Landlords restricting firearms and weapons in apartments.

    Starting a new thread here so that it can stay on topic...


    Ok... I live in a very small studio apartment in a 12 unit apartment complex... I pay 30% of my income for the subsidized apartment and the funding for the subsidy comes from HUD/Section 8 funding. They tell me that I can't have firearms or weapons in my apartment... I now have my gun, I will soon have a CPL I hope and I am following the law... I understand that Washington has a "stand your ground" law... can landlords prohibit weapons and firearms in rental properties?
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-14-2012 at 09:34 PM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Starting a new thread here so that it can stay on topic...


    Ok... I live in a very small studio apartment... I pay 30% of my income for the subsidised apartment. They tell me that I can't have firearms or weapons in my apartment... I now have my gun, I will soon have a CPL I hope and I am following the law... I understand that Washington has a "stand your ground" law... can landlords prohibit weapons and firearms in rental properties?
    Landlord cannot restrict your personal firearms in your rented appartment, or how you move those firearms from your car to your apartment and back. Read Heller, US Supreme Court decision.

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    Regular Member DamonK's Avatar
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    Re: Landlords restricting firearms and weapons in apartments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Starting a new thread here so that it can stay on topic...


    Ok... I live in a very small studio apartment in a 12 unit apartment complex... I pay 30% of my income for the subsidized apartment and the funding for the subsidy comes from HUD/Section 8 funding. They tell me that I can't have firearms or weapons in my apartment... I now have my gun, I will soon have a CPL I hope and I am following the law... I understand that Washington has a "stand your ground" law... can landlords prohibit weapons and firearms in rental properties?
    Careful, Washington is NOT a stand your ground state. We do have a twisted version of a castle doctrine, but it's pretty tricky. Your best bet may be to force the landlords to cite the laws that enable them to forbid your firearm. Then you have the advantage of being able to take that information and pick it apart at your convenience. Make sure that you keep a cool head and friendly attitude(hard as it may be) while you're doing it. And Good Luck to you.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamonK View Post
    Careful, Washington is NOT a stand your ground state. We do have a twisted version of a castle doctrine, but it's pretty tricky. Your best bet may be to force the landlords to cite the laws that enable them to forbid your firearm. Then you have the advantage of being able to take that information and pick it apart at your convenience. Make sure that you keep a cool head and friendly attitude(hard as it may be) while you're doing it. And Good Luck to you.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    RCW 9A.16.050
    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.
    I'm pretty sure that right there gives me undeniable right to posess any deadly weapon in my home... and I think that might be flat out reason to tell the people in charge to go pound sand.

    Will add more later...
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-14-2012 at 10:08 PM.

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    Wasn't a case about this very thing heard by a federal court very recently? I seem to remember that the government won: they can restrict firearms possession in government housing. Sorry I can't remember any other details.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Wasn't a case about this very thing heard by a federal court very recently? I seem to remember that the government won: they can restrict firearms possession in government housing. Sorry I can't remember any other details.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ton/56644990/1

    A case in delaware, a federal court ruled open carry restrictions in common areas of an public housing block are constitutional. the suit was over carry in common areas, not possession or carry inside their unit.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Starting a new thread here so that it can stay on topic...


    Ok... I live in a very small studio apartment in a 12 unit apartment complex... I pay 30% of my income for the subsidized apartment and the funding for the subsidy comes from HUD/Section 8 funding. They tell me that I can't have firearms or weapons in my apartment... I now have my gun, I will soon have a CPL I hope and I am following the law... I understand that Washington has a "stand your ground" law... can landlords prohibit weapons and firearms in rental properties?
    Who owns the apartments? Private or apart of low income housing owned by a governmental agency?
    I would not recommend pushing any limit until you find out more information and jeopardizing your housing and as soon as you have your CPL cover up for the time being.
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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Wasn't a case about this very thing heard by a federal court very recently? I seem to remember that the government won: they can restrict firearms possession in government housing. Sorry I can't remember any other details.
    It's not government housing, the property is privately owned by MDC and funded by HUD/Section 8. HUD gives funds to organizations such as the pierce county housing athority or the tacoma housing athority, they in turn give vouchers to qualified people to go and get a home of their choice that accepts said voucher. Also, HUD also gives money to property owners for apartment complexes and such directly so that they can issue the subsizised apartments as they so choose. So it's government funded but not government owned.

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    Thumbs up

    Careful, Washington is NOT a stand your ground state.
    Thats not exactly true, we have no stand your ground law passed by the state legislature, we do however have a ruling by the state supreme court that effectively determines WA to be a stand your ground state because of the wording of article 1 section 24 of the state constitution.
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    Regular Member Tacitus42's Avatar
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    Defund HUD. Unconstitutional waste of my income.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Starting a new thread here so that it can stay on topic...


    Ok... I live in a very small studio apartment in a 12 unit apartment complex... I pay 30% of my income for the subsidized apartment and the funding for the subsidy comes from HUD/Section 8 funding. They tell me that I can't have firearms or weapons in my apartment... I now have my gun, I will soon have a CPL I hope and I am following the law... I understand that Washington has a "stand your ground" law... can landlords prohibit weapons and firearms in rental properties?
    What is written in the lease you signed? If you signed a lease that prohibited firearms and weapons, then that is what you agreed to when you signed it. If it isn't prohibited in the lease, there ain't squat the landlords can do about it until lease renewal comes up. They can't just verbally change the conditions of the lease at their whim.

    There is nothing in Heller that forces landlords to rent to tenants who own guns. It isn't your home until you sign the lease agreement. There is nothing in Washington State or Federal law that prohibits putting a no firearms condition in a lease. In some states there is, but not Washington.
    Last edited by NavyLCDR; 09-14-2012 at 11:39 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Starting a new thread here so that it can stay on topic...
    Ok... They tell me that I can't have firearms or weapons in my apartment...
    Who are "they" and from what do they derive the order to disarm?
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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The key statement that came out of that article is:
    Jacqueline Otto said the important thing is that the right of residents of public housing to have a gun was upheld.
    I saw the post by NavyLCDR where he say's you should read the contract you signed.

    If you find there is a restriction, you may wish to review the Landlord/Tenant Laws I mentioned in the other thread http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1825278

    Duties of tenant.
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=59.18.130
    Each tenant shall pay the rental amount at such times and in such amounts as provided for in the rental agreement or as otherwise provided by law and comply with all obligations imposed upon tenants by applicable provisions of all municipal, county, and state codes, statutes, ordinances, and regulations, and in addition shall:
    (8) Not engage in any activity at the rental premises that is:

    (a) Imminently hazardous to the physical safety of other persons on the premises; and

    (b)(i) Entails physical assaults upon another person which result in an arrest; or

    (ii) Entails the unlawful use of a firearm or other deadly weapon as defined in RCW 9A.04.110 which results in an arrest, including threatening another tenant or the landlord with a firearm or other deadly weapon under RCW 59.18.352. Nothing in this subsection (8) shall authorize the termination of tenancy and eviction of the victim of a physical assault or the victim of the use or threatened use of a firearm or other deadly weapon;
    Whether the Metropolitan Development Council (MDC) is trying to act like a Housing Authority or actually is should make little difference, the article first quoted in this post also states:
    The original lawsuit was filed June 1, 2010. A few weeks later, a landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling found that state and local governments couldn't impose blanket bans on gun ownership. Following that ruling, the housing authority dropped its blanket ban on firearms in September 2010 and instead adopted the restrictions on guns in common areas.
    So, if they do have something in their contract restricting firearms and are or are simply acting like a Housing Authority, they could still be found in violation of the Landlord/Tenant Laws as well as your Washington and US Constitutional Rights. Making your's a difficult decision, accept that you signed it and hide your firearms till you can pull yourself out of that subsidized housing situation or Stand up for your rights and try to find an Attorney who will take your case pro bono. According to the Landlord/Tenant Laws, the Landlord can not legally terminate your lease unless you do something unlawfull with your firearms. However, that does not mean that they have to renew your lease when it expires and most of the subsidy programs I have seen require a new lease every year.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    As to the language in the contract: It is very simple to cross out the offending part, initial and date, then have the landlord initial and date the cross out...any prohibition of any firearms IN YOUR ABODE is illegal. When you rent an appartment it become YOUR ABODE.

    What I read from that post from the landlord tennent act the big word is "illegal". They cannot restrict your legal possession in your own home..don't give a Da&& if it is private property.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Ok, gonna give a little more detail but leave out certian pieces because it's not wise to post those specifics lol...


    I live in pierce county. I was a client at Greater Lakes Mental Health in Lakewood. I was homeless many years ago and managed to secure an apartment owned by MDC. I pay my 30% income for rent to Greater Lakes and they in turn pay the full amount to MDC. Greater Lakes gets their funding from HUD. I have my lease, the lease is from MDC. I have read it and there is nothing at all in the lease about no weapons. Yet the people at Greater Lakes say that I can't have weapons. It's against their rules... I also can't have alcohol in my apartment either but that's a totally different matter. The lease is from MDC.

    There is however a clause in my lease that states that after the 1 year lease term, my lease becomes a month to month and either party can then turminate the lease as long as there is a 20 day notice given. My concern is that they may be able to kick me out at any time for any reason without actually stating why even if I have been following the terms of my lease.


    Edit: I just reread a portion of my lease in which it states
    "Section 14. Actions by third parties/personal protection: Resident understands that owner and its legal representatives do not guarantee, warrent, or assure resident's personal security and are limited in their ability to provide protection. Resident acknowledges that security devices or measures may fail or be thwarted by criminals or by electrical or mechanical malfunction. Therefore, resident acknowledges that they should not rely upon the presence of such devices or measures and should protect themselves and their property as if these devices or measures did not exist."
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-15-2012 at 02:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    As to the language in the contract: It is very simple to cross out the offending part, initial and date, then have the landlord initial and date the cross out...any prohibition of any firearms IN YOUR ABODE is illegal. When you rent an appartment it become YOUR ABODE.

    What I read from that post from the landlord tennent act the big word is "illegal". They cannot restrict your legal possession in your own home..don't give a Da&& if it is private property.
    You are a funny guy. First, it does not become YOUR abode until both you and I sign MY lease. You can line out and initial whatever you want to in MY lease and I can tell you, thank you, have a nice day, don't call me, I'll call you and lease MY property to someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Ok, gonna give a little more detail but leave out certian pieces because it's not wise to post those specifics lol...


    I live in pierce county. I was a client at Greater Lakes Mental Health in Lakewood. I was homeless many years ago and managed to secure an apartment owned by MDC. I pay my 30% income for rent to Greater Lakes and they in turn pay the full amount to MDC. Greater Lakes gets their funding from HUD. I have my lease, the lease is from MDC. I have read it and there is nothing at all in the lease about no weapons. Yet the people at Greater Lakes say that I can't have weapons. It's against their rules... I also can't have alcohol in my apartment either but that's a totally different matter. The lease is from MDC.

    There is however a clause in my lease that states that after the 1 year lease term, my lease becomes a month to month and either party can then turminate the lease as long as there is a 20 day notice given. My concern is that they may be able to kick me out at any time for any reason without actually stating why even if I have been following the terms of my lease.
    If I were you, I would sign another 1 year lease, exactly as it is written now with no mention of firearms for or against. Then they can take their no weapons verbal policy and take a hike.

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    Check your lease - unless the lease explicitly forbids the possession of firearms, landlords, i.e., title owners, cannot make up new restrictions re your use of the property - remember, a renter is essentially steps into the shoes of the owner during the period of the lease - a lot of people don;t under stand this. Further, even if you are violating some term of a lease, the title owner can only really enforce this thru eviction which they probably do not want to do to a paying tenant, nor is eviction of a paying tenant an easy task in many states.

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    BUMP made an edit above...

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    Even if the lease does forbid firearm ownership, it might not be enforceable. Even if it is, it might be possible to challenge it in court as unconscionable.

    If you can be stripped of an unalienable right, then it's neither a right nor is it unalienable.

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    'I was a client at Greater Lakes Mental Health in Lakewood'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Ok, gonna give a little more detail but leave out certian pieces because it's not wise to post those specifics lol...


    I live in pierce county. I was a client at Greater Lakes Mental Health in Lakewood. I was homeless many years ago and managed to secure an apartment owned by MDC. I pay my 30% income for rent to Greater Lakes and they in turn pay the full amount to MDC. Greater Lakes gets their funding from HUD. I have my lease, the lease is from MDC. I have read it and there is nothing at all in the lease about no weapons. Yet the people at Greater Lakes say that I can't have weapons. It's against their rules... I also can't have alcohol in my apartment either but that's a totally different matter. The lease is from MDC.

    There is however a clause in my lease that states that after the 1 year lease term, my lease becomes a month to month and either party can then turminate the lease as long as there is a 20 day notice given. My concern is that they may be able to kick me out at any time for any reason without actually stating why even if I have been following the terms of my lease.


    Edit: I just reread a portion of my lease in which it states
    I am assuming you were there 'Greater lakes mental health' on your own accord and not serving a sentence. as if you were sentenced it would be almost impossible to get your ccw.
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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911er View Post
    I am assuming you were there 'Greater lakes mental health' on your own accord and not serving a sentence. as if you were sentenced it would be almost impossible to get your ccw.
    I was never committed voluntarily or involunterily... I was a voluntary client in need of some crisis management about 10 years ago... which is when I moved into my apartment... I am no longer a client and yet I'm still under their supervision... Greater Lakes is not a hospital or a mental institution if that's what you choose to call it. They provide individual counseling, psycho-educational groups, case management services as needed on a case by case basis. They provide services for adults and children alike.
    Last edited by Grim_Night; 09-15-2012 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    You are a funny guy. First, it does not become YOUR abode until both you and I sign MY lease. You can line out and initial whatever you want to in MY lease and I can tell you, thank you, have a nice day, don't call me, I'll call you and lease MY property to someone else.
    Navy, I stated you need the other party to initial and date also...however...

    you seem to have missed, those that accept public housing money do not get to be so choosy as to who the reject as renters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Navy, I stated you need the other party to initial and date also...however...

    you seem to have missed, those that accept public housing money do not get to be so choosy as to who the reject as renters.
    I was responding mostly to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    don't give a Da&& if it is private property.
    You are correct... there are a lot less options (as there should be) if public funds are involved. But if I am not receiving public funds, it is still MY property and MY rules until we agree to the terms of the lease, until such time as a state law is passed which prohibits landlords from banning firearms... which I honestly have mixed feelings about. I hate the idea of the government telling me what I can or cannot do with MY property.
    Last edited by NavyLCDR; 09-15-2012 at 11:44 PM.

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    Regular Member LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr
    however...
    you seem to have missed, those that accept public housing money do not get to be so choosy as to who the reject as renters.
    You are correct... there are a lot less options (as there should be) if public funds are involved. But if I am not receiving public funds, it is still MY property and MY rules until we agree to the terms of the lease, until such time as a state law is passed which prohibits landlords from banning firearms... which I honestly have mixed feelings about. I hate the idea of the government telling me what I can or cannot do with MY property.
    As a private property owner opting to be a landlord and renting out your own personal property, accepting public funding in the form of rent subsidies holds requirements that you abide by the law and not discriminate. It does not however imply that you have to accept anyone who happens to have or qualify for public rent subsidy funding. Oh, I know how those that operate the Housing Authorities will try to convince you that you have to do so, (that is so that they can hopefully bully you into keeping your door open to whomever they want to put in your home) but the truth is as long as they can not prove that you are discriminating against race, religion, national origin.. etc.. and as long as you keep your property well maintained, as a private property owner willing to accept HUD subsidies-- you are pretty much able to establish any rules you wish to trouble yourself to enforce. If the tenant does not wish to accept, then they do not have to sign the contract.

    Even if you are the owner or manager of an apartment complex that publicly advertises that you accept those subsidies, you are a bit more limited but still do not have to accept or rent to just anyone.
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