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Thread: Washington State Trooper at the fair supports 2nd amendment

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Washington State Trooper at the fair supports 2nd amendment

    So I was at the Puyallup fair the other day, and so I go to the Wash State Patrol exhibit and talk to a trooper, he notices my "TEAM GLOCK" hat and so the gun conversation starts, after a 2 minute talk about whether the Glock 19 is better then the Glock 30 I ask him about what he thinks of citizens owning weapons. here's what he had to say "I completely support concealed carry, every law abiding citizen has the right to keep themselves and their family safe from criminals" and so now here's the test, I ask "so what do you think of open carry?" he looks around to make sure the other officer wasn't in earshot and then lowers his voice and says "Yeah, I mean it freaks people out and I don't like causing other people to be fearful, but their fear is not reasonable and it is you constitutional right to open carry in public as long as you're not a felon" so I asked about contacts and he said "well i don't do contacts for OC as I'm not a local cop, but I would need some form of evidence outside the mere OC that the individual is a prohibited person or is about to commit a crime before i can stop them, we can always stop and get out of the car and ask what you're doing, but if he doesn't want to talk we can't force him too and we need probable cause to keep him there and investigate, so personally I would not and don't OC but it's not illegal nor should it be"

    I would say he got just everything right there, I won't name him as I don't have have his specific permission to and I don't want to risk getting someone in trouble for talking political issues while in uniform.
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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    An officer stating that he is OK with enforcing and understanding current law is a political issue...? That's a sad state of affairs for OC. I wonder how the LEO lobbies will fall if/when the ban on OC comes up in 2012.

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    That's what he SAYS, not what he does.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    An officer stating that he is OK with enforcing and understanding current law is a political issue...? That's a sad state of affairs for OC. I wonder how the LEO lobbies will fall if/when the ban on OC comes up in 2012.
    He didn't say that, I said that, the sad state of affairs often is speaking a view that may or may not be popular with the powers that be can get you in trouble, That's my reason for not giving his name. I don't think he'd have a problem with it, but I don't know that, so I'm just saying. he never said that, but regardless it's difficult to get people in uniform to talk about legal and political issues (in my experience) so when I get an answer I don't go trumpeting their name, but yes we was a state trooper in uniform

    unless it's an elected or appointed official holding political office or a celebrity, then quote away.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    That's what he SAYS, not what he does.
    Your proof of that is?

    Believe me, I know officers that are more then willing to talk about how they think of law the other way, a port orchard officer once told me that RCW 9.41.270 means he can detain anyone for OCing as long as at least one person feels "nervous" which is in reality not the case. believe it or not, cops who understand the law incorrectly, are more then willing to show they don't understand the law, others are perfectly willing to lie if they feel it makes their case, one cop I know once said it's illegal for an 18 year old to possess a loaded pistol in WA under any circumstances, well RCW 9.41.060 has something to say about that....

    however officers like that are comparatively rare.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    No, I was responding to the fact that you stated he seemed to be nervous to say what he did and didn't want his fellow officers to hear him say it. I agree with your insight that he was worried about the political implications of it and that's what I think is sad.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    WSP has always been polite and seem to be in the know on carry rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Your proof of that is?

    .
    Exactly. Cops will say one thing and do another..its not unheard of. Plus, I don't know they guy ... he maybe doing as he says, but more often, cops talk the talk but won't walk the walk. Same with soldiers "I would never point a gun at a citizen"...then Katrina .. never heard 1 soldier who objected

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Exactly. Cops will say one thing and do another..its not unheard of. Plus, I don't know they guy ... he maybe doing as he says, but more often, cops talk the talk but won't walk the walk. Same with soldiers "I would never point a gun at a citizen"...then Katrina .. never heard 1 soldier who objected
    These guys did
    http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/0...a-martial-law/
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member DeltaOps's Avatar
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    Some people talk about cops like they are all bad. Some people talk about OC and some even seem to think that all the people who OC are bad. Now we know that is not the case so instead of saying cops or LEOS, how about we just say some cops and some LEOs? Everyone has the right to ones own opinion but we can not have it one way and not the other. Not all cops are bad and not all are out to get you. Some do know the law and some think they know the law. Some OC citizens know the law and some think they know the law. Some citizens, just in general think they really know the law and some, well, they really have no clue. They just do what the masses (sheep) do. I thought the forums are to help educate not talk crap about people and LEOs? Yeah, I know, its not really bashing, but some things that people say just kinda blows.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaOps View Post
    Some people talk about cops like they are all bad. Some people talk about OC and some even seem to think that all the people who OC are bad. Now we know that is not the case so instead of saying cops or LEOS, how about we just say some cops and some LEOs? Everyone has the right to ones own opinion but we can not have it one way and not the other. Not all cops are bad and not all are out to get you. Some do know the law and some think they know the law. Some OC citizens know the law and some think they know the law. Some citizens, just in general think they really know the law and some, well, they really have no clue. They just do what the masses (sheep) do. I thought the forums are to help educate not talk crap about people and LEOs? Yeah, I know, its not really bashing, but some things that people say just kinda blows.
    This.

    There is evidence presented that the cop in question is one of the good ones. There is, however, absolutely NO evidence presented that he's one of the bad ones. How about exercising some rational thought before jumping to convict him based solely on the behavior of others?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    "NOT PARTICIPATING" is simply NOT ENOUGH ... if you know what is occurring is illegal and others are doing it, then you must stop the others...plus these guys are national guard, not us army .. big difference. They are part-timers ...

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The problem with cops.....err, some cops, is that they inject their opinion into the performance on the job. I have yet to find a single instance of a citizen's opinion depriving any cop of his liberty.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaOps View Post
    Some people talk about cops like they are all bad. Some people talk about OC and some even seem to think that all the people who OC are bad. Now we know that is not the case so instead of saying cops or LEOS, how about we just say some cops and some LEOs? Everyone has the right to ones own opinion but we can not have it one way and not the other. Not all cops are bad and not all are out to get you. Some do know the law and some think they know the law. Some OC citizens know the law and some think they know the law. Some citizens, just in general think they really know the law and some, well, they really have no clue. They just do what the masses (sheep) do. I thought the forums are to help educate not talk crap about people and LEOs? Yeah, I know, its not really bashing, but some things that people say just kinda blows.
    So what you're saying is that "cops" are people too? What a concept.

    In my experience I've found that they behave just like everyone else. Some go looking for trouble and confrontation and others don't, just going about their business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    So what you're saying is that "cops" are people too? What a concept.

    In my experience I've found that they behave just like everyone else. Some go looking for trouble and confrontation and others don't, just going about their business.
    Yes, we are all people. But they have a JOB. Can you behave anyway you want in your job? duh, NO.

    If you were to stop people, your customers who are OC/CC, and ask for their ID and for them to stay there just so you can check and see if they are felons..you would be out of a job in 20 seconds.

    And cops, in most states, have no more right to do that than you do...but yet their employer rewards them.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Yes, we are all people. But they have a JOB. Can you behave anyway you want in your job? duh, NO.
    My job also doesn't come with the implication I'm responsible for the safety of the public at large, logical fallacy, false comparison

    If you were to stop people, your customers who are OC/CC, and ask for their ID and for them to stay there just so you can check and see if they are felons..you would be out of a job in 20 seconds.
    Again logically fallacious, false comparison. but a private property owner can demand your ID and then kick you off the property if you refuse.


    And cops, in most states, have no more right to do that than you do...but yet their employer rewards them.
    Not correct, cops are given powers to arrest with no warrant, to carry a firearm into restricted areas, to detain people for investigation of criminal activity, etc etc etc plus liability shields and a general duty to maintain public order. again logically fallacious false comparison.

    it seems to me you're really just opposed to public order and want a society in which you can do anything you want with no consequence. to you the law's only useful if it directly benefits you by getting you off the hook for any suspicious behavior you're up to.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post



    Not correct, cops are given powers to arrest with no warrant, to carry a firearm into restricted areas, to detain people for investigation of criminal activity, etc etc etc plus liability shields and a general duty to maintain public order. again logically fallacious false comparison.

    .
    We can do all these acts as private citizens too....so a major fail on your part ... you may try again .. no offense meant ..

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    [QUOTE=EMNofSeattle;1826606]

    it seems to me you're really just opposed to public order and want a society in which you can do anything you want with no consequence


    If everybody behaved liked me then no consequences would be needed ... public order would be instantly established ... (and I can do anything I want w/o consequence fyi)

    Keep the faith !
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-18-2012 at 02:33 PM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    We can do all these acts as private citizens too....so a major fail on your part ... you may try again .. no offense meant ..
    Tell you what, place a blue light on your car and stop someone for speeding and issue them court process, just see how that works out for ya...

    Or listen a police scanner, hear a call and then tear down the highway at 90 mph to get there.

    or stop someone and threaten them with apprehension and force to conduct an investigation.

    Yeah do all these things and then get back to me.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    My job also doesn't come with the implication I'm responsible for the safety of the public at large, logical fallacy, false comparison
    .
    Many people have jobs that directly impact public safety, even more so than police .... and they don't work for the guberment.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post


    ~SNIP~
    it seems to me you're really just opposed to public order and want a society in which you can do anything you want with no consequence. to you the law's only useful if it directly benefits you by getting you off the hook for any suspicious behavior you're up to.
    Speaking of fallacies....the above in red falls under the heading of the false dichotomy, or, the appeal to extremes. Either we tolerate what we have, or we'll have anarchy in the streets. If you appose the status quo, you want chaos and social collapse.

    I contend there is a middle ground, where we as citizens, entitled to our rights through the social contract of citizenship, are entitled to our privacy and rights to travel unimpeded. A middle ground where we don't need to work out methods of immediate, unquestioning servile submission that might help in keeping our money from being taken from us, might help in not becoming a corpse or beating victim, might help survive an encounter with police.

    I'm not of the opinion that in order to invoke this middle ground expectation that much change, if any, needs to happen on the part of the citizen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Speaking of fallacies....the above in red falls under the heading of the false dichotomy, or, the appeal to extremes.
    Your w-o-r-d-s confuse me ...
    Keep the Faith!

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    [QUOTE=davidmcbeth;1826619]
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post

    it seems to me you're really just opposed to public order and want a society in which you can do anything you want with no consequence


    If everybody behaved liked me then no consequences would be needed ... public order would be instantly established ... (and I can do anything I want w/o consequence fyi)

    Keep the faith !
    WOW... The second coming has arrived and we missed it???????

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    [QUOTE=Trigger Dr;1827514]
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post

    WOW... The second coming has arrived and we missed it???????
    I'm just like you ! I don't bother folks unless they bother me

    Keep the Faith!

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    My job also doesn't come with the implication I'm responsible for the safety of the public at large, logical fallacy, false comparison
    Warren v. District of Columbia, DeShaney v. Winnebago County, Castle Rock v. Gonzales: It may be implied that cops should but it is not a legal burden that they must. Each cop must decide his level of commitment to the should part because there certainly is no must part.

    Again logically fallacious, false comparison. but a private property owner can demand your ID and then kick you off the property if you refuse.
    True. But, try to demand the ID of the cop when he enters upon your property, invited or otherwise, for the purposes of checking him out and see what happens. Active duty cops can have criminal records too.

    Not sure how prevalent this is but I do know that rights abusing cops have been successfully sued and retained their current lob or are forced to move onto other departments. Getting fired for simply being a rights abusing cop is rare indeed.

    Not correct, cops are given powers to arrest with no warrant, to carry a firearm into restricted areas, to detain people for investigation of criminal activity, etc etc etc plus liability shields and a general duty to maintain public order. again logically fallacious false comparison.
    Unless the cop has RAS or PC his state provided authority is not available to use/exert. If he ain't got RAS or PC there is no difference between me and that state employee in the eyes of the law. I can charge him (report/file a complaint) with criminal trespass. I can charge him with any crime if he is breaking the criminal code and I happen to witness his criminality. Even better if I have video/audio. Happens all the time for on-duty and off-duty behavior.

    it seems to me you're really just opposed to public order and want a society in which you can do anything you want with no consequence. to you the law's only useful if it directly benefits you by getting you off the hook for any suspicious behavior you're up to.
    I have no idea what you are try to state. Is it no laws or is it laws?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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