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Thread: ATF Gun Confiscations Skirt Due Process!

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    ATF Gun Confiscations Skirt Due Process!

    ATF Gun Confiscations Getting “Easier”

    Received from Gun Digest this morning:
    As the Washington Times reported, “The Obama administration is making it easier for bureaucrats to take away guns without offering the accused any realistic due process. In a final rule published [recently], the Justice Department granted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) authority to ‘seize and administratively forfeit property involved in controlled-substance abuses.’”
    That may sound like property being seized from a convicted drug dealer. It’s not. This gun confiscation and forfeiture (meaning, ATF can sell off the property after gun confiscations) occurs when ATF claims a crime has been ommitted in a case involving “controlled-substances.” That means government can grab firearms and other property from someone who has never been convicted or even charged with any crime. It is then up to the owner to prove that his or her property wasn’t used in the commission of a drug crime.
    “Law enforcement agencies love civil forfeiture because it’s extremely lucrative,” the Times contended. “The Department of Justice’s Assets Forfeiture Fund had $2.8 billion in booty in 2011, according to a January audit. Seizing guns from purported criminals is nothing new; Justice destroyed or kept 11,355 guns last year, returning just 396 to innocent owners.
    The new ATF rule undoubtedly is designed to ramp up the gun-grabbing because, as the rule justification claims, ‘The nexus between drug trafficking and firearm violence is well established.’”
    Essentially, ATF now has an increased “profit motive” to initiate gun confiscations during its investigations. Of course, “Nowhere is there any recognition of the burden placed on innocent citizens stripped of their property or of the erosion of their civil liberties.”
    So much for the efficacy of our Constitution! We can only hope that SCOTUS finds this "rule" unconstitutional during it's first challenge. Pax...
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Don't get your hopes up. This is just the fed expanding the illegal power that the court has, IIRC, already supported.

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    Color me naive but why does a rule/law need to be challenged before SCOTUS can step in and do their job? It seems to me that the SUPREME part grants them the power to stop bad rules/laws before anyone has to be made to suffer. For example, congress passes a law that states anyone accused of murder shall be executed via killer bees. No trial required. How many people have to die without due process before SCOTUS hits the brakes?

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    The idea is that when the Congress passes an unconstitutional law, the American people won't stand for it. They will refuse to obey it, and vote those politicians out of office. The Executive branch, all of whom have taken the oath to support and defend the constitution, won't enforce it because it is clearly unconstitutional. Only in the last defense, when the Legislative passes it and the Executive enforces it, and the people disobey it and get arrested, does the Judicial step in.

    Setting aside the futility of hoping that 1/3 of the government can save us from the other 2/3, the people still have to assert that the law is unjust. They do that by disobeying the unconstitutional law. Only then can the 1/3 tell the 2/3 that they were wrong.
    Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 09-24-2012 at 12:44 PM.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Gain "standing" before a court......technically, the courts are hesitant to undermine the "will of the people."
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Ok, fair enough. The problem with that is, the American people as a general rule, can't afford the financial burden associated with disobeying said laws. Also, the American people as a whole, think that if a law is passed, it must be constitutional, therefore it should be obeyed. Am I alone in this theory? Am I the only one who thinks that our govt. knows this and preys on that mindset and plays the odds?
    Last edited by mustangkiller; 09-24-2012 at 09:11 PM.

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    Laws are presumed to be constitutional; because hey, who would pass a law thats not, right?

    Keep the Faith!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Obama 4 more years, keep that evil Romney out...<sarcasm>
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-25-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangkiller View Post
    Ok, fair enough. The problem with that is, the American people as a general rule, can't afford the financial burden associated with disobeying said laws. Also, the American people as a whole, think that if a law is passed, it must be constitutional, therefore it should be obeyed. Am I alone in this theory? Am I the only one who thinks that our govt. knows this and preys on that mindset and plays the odds?
    Which theory? That you only have as much freedom as you can afford to buy? That one is spot on. That the American people have grown so complacent that they trust their elected officials to always act in their best interests with no oversight? Sadly, you are correct in that one as well.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brimstone Baritone View Post
    Which theory? That you only have as much freedom as you can afford to buy? That one is spot on.
    Ever wonder if it was some how planned out to work the way it has? I mean I've read multiple places that the average American has $14,000 -$15,000 credit card debt. Think the country might be different if each American had $14,000- $15,000 in the available in the bank for lawyer fees ready to protect their rights?
    Teach then to be debt slaves.
    Teach them to hate guns.
    Teach them to fear the gov.
    Control with ease.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    We have all the freedoms we need and then some.....what we don't have, or that the vast majority of us don't have, is the financial means to retain our freedoms when "da man" comes after you.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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