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Thread: unloaded in MD

  1. #1
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    unloaded in MD

    hey gang. i know i am not in your state so i had a question. can you carry a empty firearm in the state of Maryland?

    just wondering if y'all have a distinction loaded from unloaded
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Sure you can, if you want to get your head blown off.

    I wouldn't advise carry anything that even resembles a gun.

    Hell, I once got a talking down to by an AACO cop for having a locking blade folding knife in my pocket once.
    The LEO's in that state are just itching to nail you on any weapons charge they can.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Longuns-yes unloaded
    handguns-no.

    Google MD Statute 4-203



    Dreamer will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.





    Last edited by swinokur; 09-18-2012 at 07:58 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Longuns-yes unloaded
    handguns-no.

    Google MD Statute 4-203



    Dreamer will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.
    I guess you can "legally" OC a long rifle, but seriously, do you think any LEO in Maryland isnt going to arrest for some trumped up charge ?
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    The OP asked a question and it was answered. I can't speak to what a LEO might do.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    The OP asked a question and it was answered. I can't speak to what a LEO might do.
    Thats true. Im not breaking balls or anything.
    I just wanted to make it clear that OC'ing a rifle in MD (unless you are actively and legally hunting) will probably result in A LOT of hassle and probably heavy legal fee's.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Regular Member ImJustMylan's Avatar
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    Even if you are unloaded.. sum LEO might Unload his mag on you... This amazing place we live in.
    "Living in Maryland is like playing Call of Duty but the only weapon you can use is a rape whistle"

  8. #8
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    Sure you can, if you want to get your head blown off.

    I wouldn't advise carry anything that even resembles a gun.

    Hell, I once got a talking down to by an AACO cop for having a locking blade folding knife in my pocket once.
    The LEO's in that state are just itching to nail you on any weapons charge they can.

    OCDO needs a "LIKE" button like FaceBook...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  9. #9
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Longuns-yes unloaded
    handguns-no.

    Google MD Statute 4-203



    Dreamer will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong.






    By the letter of the law, you are right, for the most part--except for the municipalities that have prohibitions on "public display of firearms"--which make it illegal to show ANY firearm in public in ANY way--even in a store window of a gun shop...


    That said, I will gladly buy ANYONE (who is not an LEO, an elected official, or an attorney) a box of their favorite self-defense ammo who will provide video proof of OCing a modern (non black-powder) long gun in MD in a major urban area for more than an hour without getting haraassed, detained, arrested, beaten or shot by MD LEOs.


    I take no responsibility for any humiliation, legal costs, physical injury or mental trauma that may occur from anyone trying to collect on this challenge...

    C'mon, "swinokur", I double-dog dare you. I'll even volunteer be your videographer...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 09-25-2012 at 09:55 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  10. #10
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post

    who will provide video proof of OCing a modern (non black-powder) long gun in MD in a major urban area .
    Hell, not even in an urban area.
    Id like to see it done in a small suburban Maryland town!
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Dreamer, I never said anything about doing it. I simply answered the OP's question. With the aforementioned exceptions, it's legal.

    I have no interest in doing it myself. I am interested in getting my LTCH as soon as the CA4 rules for us. Have you applied or would you rather just to continue to complain about it? What have you done lately to advance gun rights in MD? Complaing doesn't count.

    And don't complain about getting booted from the places that were working on these issues. You did that to yourself.
    Last edited by swinokur; 09-26-2012 at 06:20 AM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Dreamer, I never said anything about doing it. I simply answered the OP's question. With the aforementioned exceptions, it's legal.
    I know the both you of have a "rough" past on these forums.
    But I dont think he was implying that you were saying you are a proponent of OC a LR in MD.

    I just think Dreamer and myself are commenting in the realistic response to OC'ing a long gun in MD.

    It may be legal but far from practical is all.
    And we are doing a huge favor to anyone who doesnt live in Maryland by telling them that.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I know the both you of have a "rough" past on these forums.
    But I dont think he was implying that you were saying you are a proponent of OC a LR in MD.
    Dreamer seems not be able to discern between the answer to a question and personal feelings on the matter.

    I just think Dreamer and myself are commenting in the realistic response to OC'ing a long gun in MD.
    Yes, but you didn't make the assumption it was something I was in favor of did you?

    It may be legal but far from practical is all.
    And we are doing a huge favor to anyone who doesnt live in Maryland by telling them that.
    No argument there.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Dreamer, I never said anything about doing it. I simply answered the OP's question. With the aforementioned exceptions, it's legal.
    Telling a newbie that this is legal, and JUST telling them it's legal, and leaving out the simple fact that although legal it is NOT TOLERATED by MD LEOs is irresponsible, dangerous, and potentially lethal.

    I'm just saying that sure it's legal. But it's irresponsible and disingenuous to tell a newbie that it it legal without ALSO giving him the caveat that although legal, it will probably get you proned, cuffed, charged with a litany of "crimes" and most likely you will have you rfirearm confiscated and never returned...


    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    I have no interest in doing it myself. I am interested in getting my LTCH as soon as the CA4 rules for us. Have you applied or would you rather just to continue to complain about it? What have you done lately to advance gun rights in MD? Complaing doesn't count.
    What have I done?

    Well, if you ever showed up to the MD General Assembly when the House Judiciary Committee hears testimony for Concealed Carry bills, you might know. In the last 4 years, I have testified in person three times at the MD GA. I have given the CC bill's sponsor (Del. Mike Smigiel) hundreds of pages of reference and research material.

    I regularly call and write my Delegates and Senators on gun rights issues.

    I hand out gun rights flyers any time I have a chance to at ranges and in gun shops.

    I talk to dozens of citizens each month about MD gun rights--educating them as to the ridiculous and nonsensical laws we have here.

    I have an NRA and a GOA membership, and I contribute to the SAF.

    I talk to people at family gatherings, in stores, restaurants, and on the street about these issues. I hold CC permits from three (soon to be 4) states, and I'm working toward getting NRA RSO and Instructor certs in several weapons forms.

    And I'm working with SCCC to attempt to start some chapters in MD universities, as an advisor and consultant, drawing from my experience in starting the most successful, active, largest, and fastest-growing chapter in NC.

    So yeah, I guess I don't really do much in MD...


    As for attempting to get a MD LTCH, I have the forms and have filled them out as best I can, have cash in an envelope in my gun safe to cover the money order for the fees, and have the local fingerprinting business on speed-dial so I can complete and FedEx my application within a day or two of getting a positive ruling on the Woolard Case.

    Applying before that will just result in the MSP returning my application unprocessed and my check uncashed (which is in direct violation of MD Statute). I think you know that is their standing procedure pending their appeal on Woolard, so don't play that silly game with me...


    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    And don't complain about getting booted from the places that were working on these issues. You did that to yourself.
    Oh yeah, I WOULD contribute time and money to MDs biggest "gun rights" organization, but they won't accept the generous offers of my time, expertise or money. I guess the egos of certain un-named people in the MD "gun rights community" are more powerful than even the sweet smell of greenbacks, or the offer of FREE volunteered skills and work backed by years of experience in PR, advertizing, graphic design, web development, public speaking, education and political activism.


    What's on YOUR "CV", "swinokur"?...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I know the both you of have a "rough" past on these forums.
    That has got to be the understatement of the decade on OCDO...



    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    But I dont think he was implying that you were saying you are a proponent of OC a LR in MD.
    You are correct in that assessment. I was just pointing out that although legal, attempting to OC a long gun in any urban area of MD is a recipe for legal disaster, and potentially a "Darwin Award" type activity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    I just think Dreamer and myself are commenting in the realistic response to OC'ing a long gun in MD.
    My point exactly. Telling someone it's legal (which it IS) but leaving out the part that doing so will get you harassed, arrested, get your property confiscated, and probably land your butt in court for the next six months is patently irresponsible, and does no service to anyone in MD, with the possible exception of a few good defense attorneys...


    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    It may be legal but far from practical is all.
    And we are doing a huge favor to anyone who doesnt live in Maryland by telling them that.
    My point exactly.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Have you applied or would you rather just to continue to complain about it? What have you done lately to advance gun rights in MD? Complaing doesn't count.
    .
    Do you feel there is any point in applying yet? I keep updated from http://marylandshallissue.org and had the understanding until the case is ruled on it would be a waste of time...

    I would love to have one.
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

  17. #17
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Wow Dreamer. Very impressive. I have been at the GA but since you don't know me you have no way of knowing. I heard your testimony.

    Daring a person to engage in an activity you feel will get someone arrested is a bit different than pointing out the possible pitfalls.

    No big surprises here. Your free professional advice was offered with aa bit of hubris IMO as a "I'm the only one who knows anything and the rest of you guys are wrong." That had more to do with the declination of your help than anyone's arrogance.
    Last edited by swinokur; 09-27-2012 at 06:30 AM.

  18. #18
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns View Post
    Do you feel there is any point in applying yet? I keep updated from http://marylandshallissue.org and had the understanding until the case is ruled on it would be a waste of time...

    I would love to have one.
    IMO, not now. The only apps that MSP is holding onto are the ones between 3-5 and 3-30 when Judge Legg issued the stay. Arguments in front of CA4 are at the end of Oct and we'll know more after that.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Wow Dreamer. Very impressive. I have been at the GA but since you don't know me you have no way of knowing. I heard your testimony.
    I know you were there. Several people told me as much, and you admitted to it yourself the next day on this forum--I'm not an idiot, and I DO have a memory span longer than a football game...

    We all know you were there. But you DIDN'T testify or participate other than to perhaps make a donation to a certain "gun rights organization".

    I've testified thrice in the last four years. My "activities" far exceed that of MOST of the "officers" of certain MD "gun rights" orgs--including you, unless you count writing checks to lawyer friends and lobbyist croneys to be an "activity"...

    Ah, the "Maryland Way"--let someone else do the "dirty work" and just keep throwing money at the problem in hopes that it will go away eventually...



    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Daring a person to engage in an activity you feel will get someone arrested is a bit different than pointing out the possible pitfalls.

    No big surprises here. Your free professional advice was offered with aa bit of hubris IMO as a "I'm the only one who knows anything and the rest of you guys are wrong." That had more to do with the declination of your help than anyone's arrogance.

    I'm sure your condescending attitude, and attempt to twist my statement around into some sort of "bad advice" in an effort to make me look bad isn't lost on most of the other members here. I'm also pretty sure that most of them see your posts for what they are, and mine for what THEY are...

    Your "personna" on OCDO--although not entirely a true reflection of your REAL personality I hope--is pretty indicative of the "MD Gun Rights Insiders" mentality. If a person isn't a land-holder, hasn't lived in Maryland for more than a few decades, and doesn't already have a LTCH and a boat-load of contacts in Annapolis, then it doesn't seem to matter much how enthusiastic, knowledgeable, driven or effective they are in the effort--they WILL be shut out, shut down and shut off.

    There is a reason why MD has remained a serfdom for nearly 300 years while nearly EVERY state that borders it is Shall Issue, and nearly EVERY state in the REGION is Shall Issue or May Issue but Shall Issue in practice. That reason is because Maryland is an elitist, racist oligarchy--on BOTH sides of the issue, and if you're not at least two of the three WWW's, you not only can't get a permit, but you will be actively prevented from trying to help change things.

    This state is full of self-anointed elitists--most of whom are undeserving of such a title because they are only elite by birth, not by skill, talent, or intelligence--on BOTH sides of the aisle. It is no wonder the common man can't get a fair shake in Maryland--he's got self-anointed Nobility on the "Left" and the "Right" gaming the system against True Freedom and Liberty from BOTH directions against him.

    We see you, your State's political system, and the "gun rights" activism community in Maryland for what it truly is--a cover story for a HUGE money-making scam that is constantly searching for new ways to empty the pocket of the decent, hard-working people in this state while fooling them into believing their money is going to something other than enriching the lives of the Ruling Elite.

    Nothing has changed in Maryland since Cecil Lord Calvert was given this land by King George. Nothing. And SOME of us--in the state and spread around the Nation--are aware of the scam that is posing as "government" in Maryland, and are starting to expose this little play for the ultimately corrupt, inbred and sociopathic little cabal it really is...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  20. #20
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Of course you have not a scintilla od evidence to support your accusations about me. Par for the course I guess.

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    Par for the course?

    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Of course you have not a scintilla od evidence to support your accusations about me. Par for the course I guess.

    First let me start by saying I don't know you swinokur. Dreamer I don't know either but I've had dealings with him on this forum for the little time that I've been here. I'm fairly new to the 2A movement and I have not been very active in The Peoples Republic of Murderland. That being said I have to say. . .In my dealings with dreamer he has been nothing but straight forward, well spoken, sarcastic at times (which is just fantastic) and 95% of the time backs what he says up with real, cold hard facts. When it comes to you swinokur. . .well there's just no facts for me to have at the moment. But in your reaction, there is really nothing to be said. I've only been here for 2 years and I was stationed in DC before that but the fact remains. Of all of the SMIBS, SMURFS, and Rich and well connected I've met here in MD the rich and well connected are by far the more detestible creatures here. He is spot on with everything he's said In my humble and far from expert opinion. . .and your reaction really only says that he hit the nail on the head. It's the reaction I would expect from someone of "status" if that's what you want to call it.
    Last edited by KainVictus; 09-27-2012 at 09:21 PM.

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