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Lawful Resistance....

OC for ME

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Amendment 11 - Judicial Limits. Ratified 2/7/1795.

The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.
All this says is that the feds cannot sue a state, not your own, on you behalf. Nor can the feds be used by a foreigner to sue any state.

So, if you want to sue Illinois for violating your 2A right you have to move to Illinois, become a resident of Illinois, get busted on a unlawful use of weapon charge in Illinois, and then sue the state of Illinois in state courts. You can not use the federal judiciary to sue the state of Illinois.

Typically it is some podunk town cop that gets ya and you are suing him and his department/city for hiring a nitwit. But, if you get busted by a Illinois state trooper you are suing the state of Illinois, so, get busted by a Illinois state trooper.
 

Brimstone Baritone

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No. You cannot sue a state, either in federal or state court, even if you live in that state. The 11th amendment, couple with the SCOTUS decisions Hans v. Louisiana and Alden v. Maine have closed that door, unless the state consents to the lawsuit.

You can sue the agents of the state in their official capacities if you can show they acted unconstitutionally. A state cannot authorize its agent to act unconstitutionally, so it is possible to strip their immunity when they act outside the bounds of their granted authority. This idea is first raised in Ex Parte Young, IIRC.
 

OC for ME

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3. A State’s constitutional privilege to assert its sovereign immunity in its own courts does not confer upon the State a concomitant right to disregard the Constitution or valid federal law. States and their officers are bound by obligations imposed by the Constitution and federal statutes that comport with the constitutional design. Limits implicit in the constitutional principle of sovereign immunity strike the proper balance between the supremacy of federal law and the separate sovereignty of the States. The first limit is that sovereign immunity bars suits only in the absence of consent. Many States have enacted statutes consenting to suits and have consented to some suits pursuant to the plan of the Convention or to subsequent constitutional Amendments. The second important limit is that sovereign immunity bars suits against States but not against lesser entities, such as municipal corporations, or against state officers for injunctive or declaratory relief or for money damages when sued in their individual capacities. Pp. 46—48.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-436.ZS.html
A state can be sued in their own courts if they violate the US Constitution or federal law that "comports with the constitutional design."

I can not sue The State of Missouri in federal court nor can I sue The State of Missouri in a state court for the unlawful acts of a nitwit cop, even a state trooper. But, if I am busted by a state agent on the authority of a state "law" that violates the US Constitution or federal law, as described above, then it seems that the state can be sued. In practical terms it seems that your assessment is correct.
 

tyc

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I can not sue The State of Missouri in federal court nor can I sue The State of Missouri in a state court for the unlawful acts of a nitwit cop, even a state trooper. But, if I am busted by a state agent on the authority of a state "law" that violates the US Constitution or federal law, as described above, then it seems that the state can be sued. In practical terms it seems that your assessment is correct.

You are not entirely right about this ...

It has to be understood right up front in that a state can be sued by an individual IF THE STATE CONSENTS to the action and if the state agrees to be sued the state is NOT violating the federal constitution nor in all probability any portion of its own state constitution.

If a state does NOT agree to be sued and as a state can not order its agent/s to violate your rights, should the agent/s of the state violate your rights, in that event you get the individual/s name/s and by way of 42 USC section 1983 and by way of Ex Parti Young (1909) you sue the individuals in a federal district court.

tyc
 
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TechnoWeenie

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No. You cannot sue a state, either in federal or state court, even if you live in that state. The 11th amendment, couple with the SCOTUS decisions Hans v. Louisiana and Alden v. Maine have closed that door, unless the state consents to the lawsuit.

You can sue the agents of the state in their official capacities if you can show they acted unconstitutionally. A state cannot authorize its agent to act unconstitutionally, so it is possible to strip their immunity when they act outside the bounds of their granted authority. This idea is first raised in Ex Parte Young, IIRC.


*cough*

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
 

davidmcbeth

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You are not entirely right about this ...

It has to be understood right up front in that a state can be sued by an individual IF THE STATE CONSENTS to the action and if the state agrees to be sued the state is NOT violating the federal constitution nor in all probability any portion of its own state constitution.

If a state does NOT agree to be sued and as a state can not order its agent/s to violate your rights, should the agent/s of the state violate your rights, in that event you get the individual/s name/s and by way of 42 USC section 1983 and by way of Ex Parti Young (1909) you sue the individuals in a federal district court.

tyc

Correct .. I am in the process of requesting the state to be sued...then I can proceed suing the state and individuals.
 

Brimstone Baritone

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A state can be sued in their own courts...

NO. A state cannot be sued against its will in its own courts. You are absolutely wrong, and it's going to take more than you saying "Yes, you can." to make you right. I'm done with this. I've provided the relevant cases, my burden of proof is met.

Agents of the state can be sued in their official capacity in Federal courts (Ex Parte Young) and in some state courts (varies by state. For Alabama the relevant case is Ex Parte Cranman) if you can show that they acted outside of the authority granted by the state (and the state cannot grant the authority to ignore it's own or the federal constitution).
 

OC for ME

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NO. A state cannot be sued against its will in its own courts. You are absolutely wrong, and it's going to take more than you saying "Yes, you can." to make you right. I'm done with this. I've provided the relevant cases, my burden of proof is met.

Agents of the state can be sued in their official capacity in Federal courts (Ex Parte Young) and in some state courts (varies by state. For Alabama the relevant case is Ex Parte Cranman) if you can show that they acted outside of the authority granted by the state (and the state cannot grant the authority to ignore it's own or the federal constitution).
OK. Ignore SCOTUS and their interpretation of the limits of sovereign immunity.

3. A State’s constitutional privilege to assert its sovereign immunity in its own courts does not confer upon the State a concomitant (incidental) right to disregard the Constitution or valid federal law. States and their officers are bound by obligations imposed by the Constitution and federal statutes that comport with the constitutional design.
I don't make this stuff up. I am not stating that a state should be sued, I agree with the sovereign immunity concept for the very reasons SCOTUS identified. But, when a state does not comport as SCOTUS cites there is a avenue, although a very very narrow avenue, for the redress of wrongs. It is much easier to gain redress from the subordinate actor(s) and not the "state", as it should be.
 
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