Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Recently was on the light rail....

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Everett,WA
    Posts
    34

    Recently was on the light rail....

    I don't know if this has been talked about, but I was recently on the light rail train and was concealing. On the ride however I saw that there was a sign that actually said no firearms or weapons, I know on metro and other public transit I've road it has said no illegal weapons allowed.

    My question is, since this is pubic transit, are they in the wrong for that one?

  2. #2
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    357
    I've ridden light rail several times and have noticed the signs. On Sound Transit's website it says "No unlawful weapons or firearms." I'm lawfully carrying so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

    Scott

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Everett,WA
    Posts
    34
    Yeah that is the actual text I meant, but couldn't remember it word for word.

    I'm just thinking, if you got comforted that would just be a factor to deal with when someone uneducated points out to maybe a conductor or guard in the tunnels. lol

  4. #4
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Whidbey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,812
    Serial misinformation as Gogo likes to say. That's their little way to feel good about themselves by "discouraging" carry (but only by LAC of course) while stopping just short of actually violating .300.

    Y'know, cuz an armed thug with an illegally carried weapon and bad intentions would NEVER disobey a mere sign... <facepalm>
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  5. #5
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elgin, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    I've ridden light rail several times and have noticed the signs. On Sound Transit's website it says "No unlawful weapons or firearms." I'm lawfully carrying so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

    Scott
    Since firearms are considered weapons the statement is either redundant or means "unlawful weapons" OR "firearms", which would be legal or illegal.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TheGunMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee, WA
    Posts
    83

    I dont Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    Since firearms are considered weapons the statement is either redundant or means "unlawful weapons" OR "firearms", which would be legal or illegal.
    I dont think I agree with this statement. The firearms I carry are legal.
    Am I reading it correct?

  7. #7
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Whidbey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,812

    Recently was on the light rail....

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGunMan View Post
    I dont think I agree with this statement. The firearms I carry are legal.
    Am I reading it correct?
    Light rail is a govt entity in this state, therefore it's covered by the preemption statute. Not only is it legal to carry on the link (with cpl of course) but they cannot prohibit you from carrying either. They like to word it as they did in order to confuse people and thereby discourage lawful carry while remaining within the law. Gives them a warm fuzzy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Serial misinformation as Gogo likes to say. That's their little way to feel good about themselves by "discouraging" carry (but only by LAC of course) while stopping just short of actually violating .300.

    Y'know, cuz an armed thug with an illegally carried weapon and bad intentions would NEVER disobey a mere sign... <facepalm>
    We have a winner....

    Yes, the government is involved in a campaign to provided misinformation to discourage citizens from lawful carry. So are others....
    Live Free or Die!

  9. #9
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    357
    For grins I sent them an e-mail to clarify... we'll see what they say.

    Scott

  10. #10
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elgin, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGunMan View Post
    I dont think I agree with this statement. The firearms I carry are legal.
    Am I reading it correct?
    No illegal drugs or Oxycontin.

    Does the above ban persons with a prescription for Oxycontin? Why would you even mention Oxycontin if the former covers the entire field of illegal drugs?
    It is just a funny way of putting it if the intention was not to prohibit or discourage legal firearms.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington
    Posts
    792
    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    I've ridden light rail several times and have noticed the signs. On Sound Transit's website it says "No unlawful weapons or firearms." I'm lawfully carrying so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

    Scott
    I think what it's suppose to mean is "No unlawful weapons (meaning knives, swords or whatever) or "unlawful" firearms". Honestly, it would have just been easier to say "No unlawful weapons." and been done with it. "No unlawful weapons or firearms." is a bit redundant.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Carnation, Washington, USA
    Posts
    748
    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    I think what it's suppose to mean is "No unlawful weapons (meaning knives, swords or whatever) or "unlawful" firearms". Honestly, it would have just been easier to say "No unlawful weapons." and been done with it. "No unlawful weapons or firearms." is a bit redundant.
    The simplest would be:

    No unlawful______________(fill in the blank).

    Or,

    No unlawful anything.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Light rail is a govt entity in this state, therefore it's covered by the preemption statute. Not only is it legal to carry on the link (with cpl of course) but they cannot prohibit you from carrying either. They like to word it as they did in order to confuse people and thereby discourage lawful carry while remaining within the law. Gives them a warm fuzzy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Clearly the signage is telling people not to bring firearms onto the train. I think that's enough to say they are violating the law.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Whidbey, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,812
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Clearly the signage is telling people not to bring firearms onto the train. I think that's enough to say they are violating the law.
    And yet, as I said before, the wording is ambiguous enough (and it's not enforced) that it stops short of violating the law. That's what the lawyers will say anyway. It's a simple policy, not a law after all, so semantics aren't so absolute.

    Once again, serial misinformation.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    And yet, as I said before, the wording is ambiguous enough
    The wording on the train is in no way ambiguous. I have a picture of the sign I can upload later. It says "no firearms or weapons", there is nothing about unlawful, illegal, etc.
    Last edited by Tawnos; 09-20-2012 at 01:31 AM.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  16. #16
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Warrenton, Oregon
    Posts
    317
    They need to replace the sign with one that is less confusing and more to the point...

    Warning to all passengers:
    It is against the law to break the law.
    Don't make us pass more laws that you shouldn't break.

    /sarcasm
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,666

    Recently was on the light rail....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Sega View Post
    They need to replace the sign with one that is less confusing and more to the point...

    Warning to all passengers:
    It is against the law to break the law.
    Don't make us pass more laws that you shouldn't break.

    /sarcasm
    +1
    Live Free or Die!

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, North Carolina, United States
    Posts
    1,424
    This is from the Sound Transit Website: http://www.soundtransit.org/Rider-Gu...for-riding.xml


    • No hazardous, explosive or corrosive materials.
    • No unlawful weapons or firearms.
    • No soliciting.


    Note: I've only included the portion that addresses firearms, plus the one immediately before and immediately after.

    This tells me that, since my weapons are legal and so am I, that I can ride with impunity. Of course, WE all know that any attempt on their part to prevent us illegal.
    Last edited by Bookman; 09-20-2012 at 07:30 AM.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    This is from the Sound Transit Website: http://www.soundtransit.org/Rider-Gu...for-riding.xml


    • No hazardous, explosive or corrosive materials.
    • No unlawful weapons or firearms.
    • No soliciting.


    Note: I've only included the portion that addresses firearms, plus the one immediately before and immediately after.

    This tells me that, since my weapons are legal and so am I, that I can ride with impunity. Of course, WE all know that any attempt on their part to prevent us illegal.
    The problem is that they have different rules posted in the trains, which can lead to confusion and unnecessary/illegal detainment by an under-informed officer.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  20. #20
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    357

    Sound Transit's OFFICIAL response!

    Here is ST's official response... It is interesting she specifically made reference to open-carrying... If anyone would like me to forward them the e-mail to print out and carry with you (If you ride Sound Transit) then PM me your e-mail address.

    Thank you for contacting Sound Transit Keith.
    Weapons are allowed by those who are legally permitted to carry. We prefer those folks to carry concealed and discourage open carry as we are still technically a vehicle.

    Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

    Sincerely,

    Denene Dean

    Sound Transit
    401 South Jackson St.
    Seattle, WA 98104
    denene.dean@soundtransit.org
    Desk 206.398.5265
    Last edited by skeith5; 09-20-2012 at 03:05 PM.

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    Here is ST's official response... It is interesting she specifically made reference to open-carrying... If anyone would like me to forward them the e-mail to print out and carry with you (If you ride Sound Transit) then PM me your e-mail address.

    Thank you for contacting Sound Transit Keith.
    Weapons are allowed by those who are legally permitted to carry. We prefer those folks to carry concealed and discourage open carry as we are still technically a vehicle.

    Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

    Sincerely,

    Denene Dean

    Sound Transit
    401 South Jackson St.
    Seattle, WA 98104
    denene.dean@soundtransit.org
    Desk 206.398.5265
    I would put that over their commie signs....

  22. #22
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bremerton, Washington
    Posts
    593
    hmmm, sounds as if they don't understand that having a CPL leaves folks the choice of how to carry, it doesn't require concealed carry.

  23. #23
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by Vitaeus View Post
    hmmm, sounds as if they don't understand that having a CPL leaves folks the choice of how to carry, it doesn't require concealed carry.
    You can't open carry in a vehicle unless you have your CPL. I would imagine that they would rather not have to figure out who is carrying legally or illegally as well as avoiding the Man with a gun calls that would inevitably happen if you were to open carry on the light rail.

    Scott

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,546
    Quote Originally Posted by skeith5 View Post
    You can't open carry in a vehicle unless you have your CPL. I would imagine that they would rather not have to figure out who is carrying legally or illegally as well as avoiding the Man with a gun calls that would inevitably happen if you were to open carry on the light rail.

    Scott
    Correction, you can't LOADED open carry.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  25. #25
    Regular Member rapgood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bothell, WA
    Posts
    565
    Quote Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
    This is from the Sound Transit Website: http://www.soundtransit.org/Rider-Gu...for-riding.xml
    • No hazardous, explosive or corrosive materials.
    • No unlawful weapons or firearms.
    • No soliciting.


    Note: I've only included the portion that addresses firearms, plus the one immediately before and immediately after.

    This tells me that, since my weapons are legal and so am I, that I can ride with impunity. Of course, WE all know that any attempt on their part to prevent us illegal.
    Whew! What a relief now that THAT'S been clarified! And here, all of these years, I've been under the misunderstanding that explosive and corrosive materials were hazardous! :dimple::dent:
    Rev. Robert Apgood, Esq.

    A right cannot be lost by exercising it. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025, 130 S. Ct. 3020, 3021, 177 L. Ed. 2d 894 (2010) (citing Near v. Minn., 283 U.S. 697 (1931)).

    Although IAAL, anything I say here is not legal advice. No conversations we may have privately or otherwise in this forum constitute the formation of an attorney-client relationship, and are not intended to do so.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •