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Thread: Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach

  1. #1
    Regular Member Lincoln7's Avatar
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    Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach *UPDATE*

    Hello, there is a WWI air show at the Military Aviation Museum in the Pungo area of Virginia Beach on Sept 21-23. Has anyone OC'd there? I found one post of someone doing so successfully in the 'OC in Hampton Roads' thread but it was a few years ago. I gave them a call and I was informed that they are a privately owned facility. I'd rather not ask them their stance on carry so as to not give them the opportunity to deny me doing so. Further, anyone plan on attending the show? It appears they have alot of interesting things to offer. Thanks!

    Website: http://www.militaryaviationmuseum.org/

    Post #3491 containing positive OC experience:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1386134
    Last edited by Lincoln7; 09-22-2012 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Update

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I carried concealed there, I think....sometime last year. No signs to worry about at the time.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Cool

    The only overtly anti-gun establishment in Pungo that I know of is North Landing Beach Campground.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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  4. #4
    Regular Member Lincoln7's Avatar
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    I open carried my era correct M1911 to the WWI air show at the museum today. There were lots of museum personnel around and none of them said a word. I received complements from two individuals, one of them being WWI enactor carrying the same thing (his was in a proper flap holster, though). The show was great by the way. Lots of real firearms with some of them firing blanks for the presentations.

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    Not (or no longer) carry friendly

    I visited this otherwise wonderful place with a family group today, and OCd after reading this somewhat dated thread. After I was there for about 5-10 minutes, I was tapped on the shoulder by security and instructed to stow my gun in the car. On my way out to do so, I asked if they had armed security on site, and I received the response I expected. Of course, they weren't searching people for concealed guns. I put my visible gun in the car, enjoyed the venue, and then wrote a mostly positively-rated review (with a caveat) on TripAdvisor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    The only overtly anti-gun establishment in Pungo that I know of is North Landing Beach Campground.
    I don't know how I could enjoy a nice picnic w/o my Armilite rifle being close by ... so I would not go there and support such commies.

  7. #7
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    I open carried there with no issue about 6 months ago. Was there anything posted or was this just an overzealous guard?

    I fired off an email to the Museum director:

    Museum Director
    Mike Potter
    email: director@aviationmuseum.us

    seeking clarification of their policy and will let all know what response I get.
    Last edited by wrearick; 08-03-2016 at 03:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Ineedshoes,
    Here is the response I received from the museum director. Recommend you give him a call with the specifics.

    Military Aviation Museum
    1341 Princess Anne Road
    Virginia Beach, VA 23457
    Phone: (757) 721-7767
    Fax: (757) 204-2682
    Museum Director
    Mike Potter
    email: director@aviationmuseum.us

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Director Museum <director@aviationmuseum.us> Add to Addresses Block Sender

    Date: Thursday, August 4, 2016 8:35 AM

    To: rearick@cox.net Add to Addresses

    Subject: Re: Museum Restrictions

    Size: 18 KB


    Good morning, Bill


    To be clear, are we talking about the Military Aviation Museum? I ask only because we have no security guards.


    If it is our museum your member was at, I would like to hear more details. You are correct that we are a privately owned facility, and to date we have posted no signage impacting open carry.


    I am in meetings until around noon today, but feel free to call me later in the day or ask your member to do so so I am clear on what took place.


    Best regards,


    Mike Potter


    All the best,


    Mike


    On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:52 PM, <rearick@cox.net> wrote:

    Recently (2 Aug 2016) one of the patrons on Open Carry.Org forums was confronted by one of the museum security guards and told he had to stow his legally carried firearm in his car. I personally visited the museum 6 months ago and had no such problem with my legally carried firearm. During that visit I observed no signage posted restricting the legal carry of firearms and a search of your website did not reveal and rules or regulations restricting the legal exercise of our 2nd amendment right. Has there been a recent change in your museums policy or is this a case of a security guard exceeding his authority? Members of our organization seek to be exemplary models of law abiding citizens and if your facility restricts our right to carry for personal protection I will put out the word on the forum and submit an input to the VCDL.org Alert newsletter (1.2 million folks throughout Virginia on the distribution list) so that we can avoid future encounters of this nature. While members of our organization recognize and respect the ability of property owners to place restrictions on guests at their establishments, a great majority of us will find other locations to visit and spend our money than to be forced to rely on local police or unarmed security guards to ensure our safety. In case this was a misunderstanding on the part of your security officer I wanted to reach out and contact you before I put out the word that your museum was a "no-carry" establishment.

    very respectfully,

    Bill Rearick

  9. #9
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    very good job with the inquiry and exemplary response to provide corrective action if it discerned who misspoke at the museum.

    nice job Wrearick...

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    Ineedshoes,
    Here is the response I received from the museum director. Recommend you give him a call with the specifics.

    Military Aviation Museum
    1341 Princess Anne Road
    Virginia Beach, VA 23457
    Phone: (757) 721-7767
    Fax: (757) 204-2682
    Museum Director
    Mike Potter
    email: director@aviationmuseum.us

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: Director Museum <director@aviationmuseum.us> Add to Addresses Block Sender

    Date: Thursday, August 4, 2016 8:35 AM

    To: rearick@cox.net Add to Addresses

    Subject: Re: Museum Restrictions

    Size: 18 KB


    Good morning, Bill


    To be clear, are we talking about the Military Aviation Museum? I ask only because we have no security guards.


    If it is our museum your member was at, I would like to hear more details. You are correct that we are a privately owned facility, and to date we have posted no signage impacting open carry.


    I am in meetings until around noon today, but feel free to call me later in the day or ask your member to do so so I am clear on what took place.


    Best regards,


    Mike Potter


    All the best,


    Mike


    On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:52 PM, <rearick@cox.net> wrote:

    Recently (2 Aug 2016) one of the patrons on Open Carry.Org forums was confronted by one of the museum security guards and told he had to stow his legally carried firearm in his car. I personally visited the museum 6 months ago and had no such problem with my legally carried firearm. During that visit I observed no signage posted restricting the legal carry of firearms and a search of your website did not reveal and rules or regulations restricting the legal exercise of our 2nd amendment right. Has there been a recent change in your museums policy or is this a case of a security guard exceeding his authority? Members of our organization seek to be exemplary models of law abiding citizens and if your facility restricts our right to carry for personal protection I will put out the word on the forum and submit an input to the VCDL.org Alert newsletter (1.2 million folks throughout Virginia on the distribution list) so that we can avoid future encounters of this nature. While members of our organization recognize and respect the ability of property owners to place restrictions on guests at their establishments, a great majority of us will find other locations to visit and spend our money than to be forced to rely on local police or unarmed security guards to ensure our safety. In case this was a misunderstanding on the part of your security officer I wanted to reach out and contact you before I put out the word that your museum was a "no-carry" establishment.

    very respectfully,

    Bill Rearick
    "exemplary models of law abiding citizens"? A reader would take that to mean all members strive to be exemplary models of LACs. However, this statement hurts your credibility as you like do not know what every member is striving to be...or at least that's what the reader will come to a conclusion.

    Ditto with "members...respect the ability of property owners...".

    Replace members with organization and I think you're good.

    Just a FYI ... a critique not to admonish but for you to improve.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    "exemplary models of law abiding citizens"? A reader would take that to mean all members strive to be exemplary models of LACs. However, this statement hurts your credibility as you like do not know what every member is striving to be...or at least that's what the reader will come to a conclusion.

    Ditto with "members...respect the ability of property owners...".

    Replace members with organization and I think you're good.

    Just a FYI ... a critique not to admonish but for you to improve.
    Suggest that "security guard" be replaced with an apparent member of your organization.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Suggest that "security guard" be replaced with an apparent member of your organization.
    understand that may turn out to be the case but I tried to state things as presented by ineedshoes. "I was tapped on the shoulder by security and instructed to stow my gun in the car." Even then I messed up and referred to the person as a security "guard".

  13. #13
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    A follow up reply from the museum director......

    From: Director Museum <director@aviationmuseum.us> Add to Addresses Block Sender
    Date: Friday, August 5, 2016 11:05 AM
    To: rearick@cox.net Add to Addresses
    Subject: Re: Museum Restrictions

    Thanks, Bill

    Talking to our museum volunteers later yesterday morning, I am now sure it was our museum, and it was just earlier this week. I did not hear about the incident at the time, but then this morning your forum member gave us a review on Tripadvisor.com detailing it (a copy is attached for you).

    He very kindly gave us a four-star rating, and said the only reason it wasn't a five star was that he thought our patriotism regarding our mission did not match his perception of patriotism.

    As a gun owner of many decades, I have nothing but respect for every law-abiding gun owner. As the museum director, I also have to be conscious of the perceptions and feelings of our guests. For those not accustomed to weapons, military service, or gun ownership themselves, a public display of a weapon is often unnerving and uncomfortable, particularly in the light of many recent tragic events.

    In my experience, museums in general do not allow open carry on their properties. While we have no signage or written policies on this, I have told our staff and volunteers that as a private museum we will ask our guests to leave any visible weapons in their vehicles. This is the practice that makes the vast majority of our guests the most comfortable so that they may enjoy their visit while they learn about the sacrifices of those in our military who have gone into harm's way for us in the past.

    At least in the past several years that I am aware of, everyone who has been asked to return their weapon to their car has chosen to enjoy our museum and respect our choices, but I completely understand that many on your forum may choose to disagree with us.

    All the best to you and all of your forum's community.

    Mike Potter
    Museum Director

    (I guess none of them noticed me open carrying for the 3-4 hours we spent there. Doesn't make one feel secure about leaving their personal protection in the car. Disappointed but respect their right to make their own rules. I will chose not to expose my self and my loved ones to the risk.)

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    He's a lizzurd ....
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-05-2016 at 08:11 PM. Reason: deleted picture - over done

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    I think I would reply to him that I would never visit his museum and would discourage any and all people I know from visiting. Further I would be posting the conversations/email exchange on the forum (link them in) and discourage everyone here from visiting.

    I would also advise him that I would be forwarding the email exchange to VDCL and request they post it on their information site and emails they send out and discourage their 1.2 million members from visiting and suggest those members discourage their friends from visiting that museum.

    Then do it. The best way to get someone to change a policy is to reduce their incoming cash flow. That always gets their attention.

    Nemo

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    I think I would reply to him that I would never visit his museum and would discourage any and all people I know from visiting. Further I would be posting the conversations/email exchange on the forum (link them in) and discourage everyone here from visiting.

    I would also advise him that I would be forwarding the email exchange to VDCL and request they post it on their information site and emails they send out and discourage their 1.2 million members from visiting and suggest those members discourage their friends from visiting that museum.

    Then do it. The best way to get someone to change a policy is to reduce their incoming cash flow. That always gets their attention.

    Nemo
    Aaa, not quite. I believe the number is something over 5,000 VCDL members and 30,000+ people get the Va-Alert.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Aaa, not quite. I believe the number is something over 5,000 VCDL members and 30,000+ people get the Va-Alert.

    I stand corrected. I do have to say I found that number a bit hard to believe myself. IIRC I found it around here somewhere. So give them the VCDL link and accurate number or just a link to VCDL.

    Which would be more appropriate or persuasive?

    Nemo

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    I stand corrected. I do have to say I found that number a bit hard to believe myself. IIRC I found it around here somewhere. So give them the VCDL link and accurate number or just a link to VCDL.

    Which would be more appropriate or persuasive?

    Nemo
    VCDL link and numbers + GOA and JPFO + don't forget OCDO - hit them with a broadside.......politely.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    You have seen my comments on the raceway in Richmond and my ongoing "disagreement" with them. But, because this was started by another here, and has had the ongoing contact I believe that person would be best to send them the note. Then we ALL HERE send an email with a subject line of I agree with .......... . Simple statement inside saying to the effect-- As a member of XYZ forum and getting notice of your firearms policy through a discussion there, I will not visit your musesum. I will take my patronage to a firearm friendly business. Sincerely signature/

    Nemo
    Last edited by Va_Nemo; 08-06-2016 at 06:10 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    A follow up reply from the museum director......

    ... This is the practice that makes the vast majority of our guests the most comfortable so that they may enjoy their visit while they learn about the sacrifices of those in our military who have gone into harm's way for us in the past.

    At least in the past several years that I am aware of, everyone who has been asked to return their weapon to their car has chosen to enjoy our museum and respect our choices, but I completely understand that many on your forum may choose to disagree with us. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    You have seen my comments on the raceway in Richmond and my ongoing "disagreement" with them. But, because this was started by another here, and has had the ongoing contact I believe that person would be best to send them the note. Then we ALL HERE send an email with a subject line of I agree with .......... . Simple statement inside saying to the effect-- As a member of XYZ forum and getting notice of your firearms policy through a discussion there, I will not visit your musesum. I will take my patronage to a firearm friendly business. Sincerely signature/

    Nemo
    I'd take a different approach.

    I would write back, and in a non-confrontational way, ask him to consider the following subjects/questions:

    - has he taken a survey of patrons, and if not, how does he know what "the vast majority" of his guests prefer?
    - has he ever heard of the "squeaky wheel gets the grease", and suggest that the "vast majority" of his guests are not squeaking
    - those who have been or are in the military part are there to protect our freedom and way of life - including our ability to peacefully exercise rights, just like the OCer in question
    - make it clear that you're not asking him to evangelize, but rather to be a neutral party, as long as the person OCing is not menacing other guests

    and finally:

    - if he supports gun rights, then ask him why he would be party to doing exactly what those who OPPOSE gun rights do - which is to stigmatize guns, gun ownership, and indeed even the SIGHT of a gun?

    My 2 cents.

  21. #21
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Va_Nemo View Post
    I think I would reply to him that I would never visit his museum and would discourage any and all people I know from visiting. Further I would be posting the conversations/email exchange on the forum (link them in) and discourage everyone here from visiting.

    I would also advise him that I would be forwarding the email exchange to VDCL and request they post it on their information site and emails they send out and discourage their 1.2 million members from visiting and suggest those members discourage their friends from visiting that museum.

    Then do it. The best way to get someone to change a policy is to reduce their incoming cash flow. That always gets their attention.

    Nemo
    already did that and copied leadership@vcdl.org on the email. Several executive board members have replied to me and or sent personal emails to Mike.

  22. #22
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    VCDL link and numbers + GOA and JPFO + don't forget OCDO - hit them with a broadside.......politely.
    He was already provided the link to this thread. Not sure I am familiar with GOA and JPFO, but I can forward them the email chain I sent to VCDL if anyone has an email address for a contact there.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    He was already provided the link to this thread. Not sure I am familiar with GOA and JPFO, but I can forward them the email chain I sent to VCDL if anyone has an email address for a contact there.
    GOA = Gun Owners of America
    "Gun Owners of America (GOA) is a gun rights organization in the United States with over 1.5 million members. It makes efforts to differentiate itself from the larger National Rifle Association (NRA), and has publicly criticized the NRA on multiple occasions for allegedly compromising on gun rights issues and thereby selling out the gun rights movement."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Owners_of_America

    Contact info:
    http://gunowners.net/cgi-bin/ttx.cgi?cmd=newticket

    ******************************************

    JPFO = Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
    "Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) is a group dedicated to the preservation of gun rights in the United States and "to encourage Americans to understand and defend all of the Bill of Rights for everyone". The group was founded by former firearms dealer Aaron S. Zelman in 1989. The JPFO interprets the Second Amendment as recognizing a pre-existing natural right of individuals to keep and bear arms. It is based in Hartford, Wisconsin."

    JPFO takes the position that an armed citizenry is the population's last line of defense against tyranny by their own government. The organization is noted for producing materials (bumper stickers, posters, billboards, booklets, videos, etc.) with messages that equate gun control with totalitarianism. The most famous of these are the "All in favor of Gun Control raise your right hand" materials, which features a drawing of Hitler giving a Nazi salute. The organization also attempts to prove that genocide is linked to gun control, by showing that most countries where a genocide has taken place had gun control first."

    "Members do not have to be Jewish. The only membership requirement is that you be a "law-abiding citizen," by "obeying the Bill of Rights." "

    PFPO merged with SAF (the Second Amendment Foundation) in 2014.

    Contact them at:
    https://www.saf.org/contact-us-2/
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Thanks Grapeshot, I will forward them the emails.

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    I hadn't visited OCDO since I posted about my experience and just now noticed the traffic. Thanks to those that took the baton forward--truly an OCDO community effort.

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